§ 3.12 p.m.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the new development of the Fylingdales early warning station breaks the ABM Treaty and which interpretation of that treaty they are applying.
§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Glenarthur)My Lords, the modernisation of the ballistic missile early-warning radar at Fylingdales as agreed between ourselves and the US Government conforms fully with US obligations under the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, am I correct in believing that the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty bans the large phased-array radar system (of which Fylingdales is one example) with five exceptions? Is it the case that the Fylingdales system does not satisfy any one of those five exceptions?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, Her Majesty's Government have no locus standi to interpret the ABM Treaty because we are not parties to that treaty. The United States authorities have fully discussed the matter with Her Majesty's Government. We are satisfied on that basis that the proposal to modify is fully in accordance with US obligations.
§ Lord GladwynMy Lords, as the Soviet Government have recently permitted American experts to inspect a similar installation at Krasnoyarsk, will the Government suggest to our 1371 American friends that they would do well to permit Soviet experts to inspect the similar installation at Fylingdales?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, what the Soviets choose to do by way of allowing people to look at Krasnoyarsk is a matter for them.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, indeed. Might we not do well to emulate the Soviet example in that respect? Is it not the case that we had the gravest suspicions, which were enunciated from that Front Bench, about the Russian development, and that we are now apparently satisfied that we were mistaken? Would it not be equally in the general interest of promoting confidence between the powers if we were to do the same?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I should have thought that the most important thing would be for us to take care to ensure that our technology is at the forefront of that necessary to defend the West.
§ Lord MellishMy Lords, do I understand correctly that the early warning system which is in operation at Fylingdales is for the benefit of the people of this nation, to help them in the terrible event of a war being declared? Is it right that the whole object is the safety of the people? If it is anything else, does it matter?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, the noble Lord is quite right.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, the Minister has said that there have been discussions with the United States Government. Is he aware that many United States official experts have said that this new system breaks the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty? Is he further aware that when he speaks about modernisation, he is talking about a totally new system, on a new site, with new equipment, which again breaks the ABM Treaty? Will he tell the House why the Government have not published the memorandum of understanding with the United States on the operation of this equipment and whether they intend to do so?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, the present arrangements are for modernisation. They do not change the character and the nature of the Fylingdales radar. I can arrange for a copy of the United States/United Kingdom agreement on the modernisation of Fylingdales to be made available.