HL Deb 04 November 1987 vol 489 cc983-5

2.56 p.m.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they propose to take to ensure that no charge shall fall on the Exchequer in respect of any amount by which the European Community's budget for 1988 as established by a qualified majority of members of the Council of Ministers exceeds the Community's own resources as determined unanimously by the Council decision (85/257/EC Euratom) of 7th May 1985 at 1.4 per cent., being the maximum rate applied to the uniform basis for assessing value added tax as defined therein.

The Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Lord Young of Graffham)

My Lords, the Government will do their utmost to ensure that the Community does not adopt a budget in excess of the present own resources ceiling unless and until the Council has decided unanimously to raise the ceiling. The Community cannot in any event spend money which it does not have.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply and thoroughly endorse those sentiments. However, I should like to ask him whether he is aware that the figures given yesterday by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in respect of the British net contribution after all receipts to European funds was some £1,400 million—a very large sum of money indeed and £400 million more than was envisaged in January? Will the Minister offer the utmost resistance to any increase in that contribution, which only goes towards the useless cost of food mountains, wine mountain—lakes—and so on?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, that I shall not attempt to scale any wine mountain, but I shall pass on his comments. Of course, we have commitments to the European Community and we shall abide by those commitments. We shall do our utmost to ensure that the rest of the Community does so as well.

Baroness Seear

My Lords, why did the Minister say that the Community cannot spend money that it does not have when it has already done so?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, I should like to assure the noble Baroness that in fact the Community can only spend money that it has to spend. But we must ensure that it sets a legally binding budget and that it lives within that budget.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, in connection with this problem, which the Minister himself has called serious, can he say whether the Government will inquire into why, so often, the will of the European Parliament seems to be totally ignored and flouted by the Council of Ministers, as it has been in this particular instance? Is he prepared to consider that point and take it on board for discussions with his colleagues?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, clearly, there are accepted procedures for agreeing the budget in Europe. Within them Parliament as well as the Council of Ministers have their allotted roles. It is up to us to ensure that those procedures are adhered to and that the budgets are set legally.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, as the Minister willingly concedes, the common agricultural policy is crucial in the context of what is now being discussed. Is he aware that the Government have given an undertaking that they will make firm proposals on the reform of the CAP? Will he be good enough to tell us the stage which work on that reform has reached and when representation will be made?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, that is an entirely different question. If the noble Lord cares to put down a Question I will see that the information is made available.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, is not the common agricultural policy and the money involved there crucial to the whole issue in the Question?

Lord Young of Graffham

Yes, my Lords, it is an integral part of it. But I was asked specifically about the own resources ceiling, which is a very definite and clear part of the issue. I should be only too happy to answer the other question.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that this item does not appear anywhere on the agenda for the ministerial council meetings in November? Is he not leaving it a little late; or perhaps the Prime Minister's office should make representations to the Foreign Office for the correct organisation of these meetings?

Lord Young of Graffham

No, my Lords. We have to put this in the right structure. The agreement as regards the financing of the European Community is clear. It must live within its own resources budget and that is predicated on 1.4 per cent. of VAT. If there is any change from that, it is up to the Commission to introduce it.