§ 2.45 p.m.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
538 The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether there has been a reduction in the incidence of football hooliganism during the 1986–87 season compared with recent years.
The Minister of State, Home Office (The Earl of Caithness)My Lords, a detailed assessment of the incidence of football hooliganism will be made later this month following the completion of the Football League programme of matches. The Association of Chief Police Officers for England and Wales will provide my right honourable friend the Home Secretary with statistics on attendances. arrests and ejections at Football League matches and with its assessment of the position in relation to previous years. He will announce the result of this appraisal in due course.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that reply. Will he pass to the police congratulations on finding and bringing to trial the gang of five who were sentenced yesterday? Can he confirm that television video recordings have helped to identify the perpetrators of violence and that this could be a lesson and a warning to others who might be tempted to cause trouble?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that question and I do so agree with him that the police officers involved deserve the highest praise for bringing a very difficult operation to a successful conclusion. We hope that this will be a warning to potential troublemakers.
Lord HuntMy Lords, can the Minister tell the House whether the imposition of attendance centre orders, whether senior or junior, which have to be served on Saturday afternoons have had a beneficial effect on the perpetrators of football hooliganism?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, if there is an attendance order on somebody who might cause trouble at a football ground and he is not allowed to cause trouble as a result of it, that surely must be beneficial.
§ Lord RentonMy Lords, can my noble friend say whether when the statistics are published they will include information about hooliganism by British subjects abroad? Can he also say whether they will give an indication of the number of lives lost as a result of this hooliganism?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I am not sure to what extent the statistics will contain the information that my noble friend wants, but I shall draw the points he makes to the attention of my right honourable friend the Home Secretary.
§ Lord Ross of MarnockMy Lords, will similar statistics be produced by the Secretary of State for Scotland in relation to Scotland? If they are, they will show quite clearly that what we are dealing with here as evidenced in the courts is an English disease. Is the noble Earl aware that there has been nothing but praise for the behaviour of the Scottish supporters who went to Gothenburg just the other week?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, no objective assessment has yet been made for the current session in Scotland, but I agree with the noble Lord that the preliminary view is that improvement in football crowd behaviour have been maintained this season. It should be noted that there has been a considerable increase in attendances.
§ Lord MishconMy Lords, in joining in the general congratulations from these Benches both to the police and to the Scots, will the noble Earl inform the House whether from the reports that he has received so far it looks as though the alcohol provisions which came into recent legislation passed by Parliament have helped in keeping down hooliganism at football grounds?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, we firmly believe that the legislation that this House passed not so long ago has been an enormous contribution. It was the police view earlier in the year that the welcome improvement in behaviour last season has generally been maintained this season.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, will my noble friend also agree that the earlier legislation which banned drink at football grounds in Scotland showed the way and indicated that this would give rise to considerable improvement?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, as so often happens, England has followed the lead of Scotland in this field.
§ Lord Graham of EdmontonMy Lords, will the noble Earl agree that, of all the elements that can assist in reducing hooliganism, the supporters' clubs have a major part to play? While I understand the Minister saying that they have been part of the consultation process, will he not agree that concentration on encouraging supporters' clubs to be more vigilant not only about their members but about non-members whom they can identify would go a long way to reducing hooliganism?
The Earl of CaithnessYes, my Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Graham of Edmonton. Of course we wish to give support to the supporters' clubs because anything that can reduce violence and hooliganism at football matches must be encouraged.
The Viscount of FalklandMy Lords, further to the widely accepted connection between under-age drinking and football hooliganism, is the Minister generally satisfied with the enforcement of the laws against under-age drinking which leads to these abuses?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, the word "generally" takes the noble Viscount's question rather wide of the Question on the Order Paper.