HL Deb 17 March 1987 vol 485 cc1314-7

2.52 p.m.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have studied the recommendations contained in Age Concern's working party report The Law and Vulnerable Elderly People,published in 1986, and whether they intend to bring forward proposals based on issues raised in the report.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, the Age Concern report The Law and Vulnerable Elderly Peoplemakes numerous proposals on the legal rights of elderly people, many of which are now contained in legislation. Although we shall continue to keep the remaining recommendations in mind, we have no plans to introduce legislation based on them.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that reply, although I wish it could have gone further. Does the noble Baroness agree with what is said in the pamphlet—that the aging population represents one of the greatest challenges to our modern society? Since it is predicted that there will be almost 1 million people of 85 years and over by the turn of the century, is she satisfied that our existing framework of legal and social mechanisms is capable of meeting that challenge, particularly when we already know, for instance, that abuse of the elderly is on the increase and the potential indicated by the predictions is worryingly frightful?

Can the noble Baroness tell us whether the Government have any plans to allocate funds, for instance, to the Medical Research Council and other appropriate bodies to carry out research into the problems of abuse of elderly persons? Also, when does she expect to be able to give us some figures for the funds for that research to take place?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, the services required by elderly people who need care are provided by health authorities and local authorities. Both take account of demographic changes and trends. We deplore abuse, whether it is physical or psychological, committed on any elderly people. At present there are no indications that action at government level is required. It is for the MRC to allocate the funding available to them to those areas of research that they consider appropriate.

Lord Orr-Ewing

My Lords, would my noble friend say what the Government's policy is towards the increasing number of very vulnerable old people?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, the central aim of all our policies is to provide services that enable elderly people to live in their own homes for as long as possible. That is what they want for themselves. To achieve this we need to develop services which support them' and those caring for them in their own homes; to keep the number and length of any episodes of hospital or other institutional care to a minimum; and to provide the best quality of life we can for those who usually need long-term hospital, residential home or nursing home care.

Baroness Jeger

My Lords, is the Minister aware that that while we would all agree about the desirability of old people staying in their own homes, some of them are liable to die of hypothermia as they sit in their cold homes? As a considerable part of this report dealt with the question of help with heating, can the Minister tell the House whether the Government are satisfied with the assistance they gave during the very severe weather at the beginning of this year, and whether they are making any long-term plans to help with heating?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, as regards the question of heating, I do not believe there are any proposals in the paper before me; that is, in the report The Law and Vulnerable Elderly People.The Government acted speedily and generously during the recent cold weather spell; and it must never be forgotten that there is a heating allowance throughout the year for elderly people.

Lord Renton

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that one of the greatest needs for old people living alone is to have a telephone or an alternative alarm system? Could my noble friend ensure that the Government will consider that as a priority, including measures to enable old people living alone to be able to afford it?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I will bring my noble friend's question to the attention of my right honourable friend.

Lord Glenamara

My Lords, has the noble Baroness noticed the recent increase in the number of attacks on old people, particularly that most horrifying phenomenon of all, the number of rapes of elderly ladies? Does she not think that the kind of bland reply she has given today is quite inadequate in the face of what is happening?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I am not quite sure what the noble Lord means by "bland reply". I said I thought that any attack on any old person was disgusting and intolerable, or words to that effect. I really do not know what action the noble Lord wishes me to take in the context of this particular Question. However, the entire Government are concerned about any acts of violence against elderly people, and indeed there is an interdepartmental committee on violence sitting in the Home Office every month, discussing this kind of thing.

Lord Glenamara

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Renton, has just made one proposal about alarm systems for very old people. Will the Minister take that up?

Noble Lords

She said she would.

Lord Elwyn-Jones

My Lords, in regard to one of the matters raised in the admirable report by Age Concern, are there adequate safeguards to ensure that valid consent to compulsory forms of medical treatment of an old person in institutional care is always sought, either in person or through a third party as representative? Is an elderly person's refusal to have such compulsory medical treatment respected?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, the incidence of use of Section 47 powers of the National Assistance Act 1948 is very low, and generally we have no reason to suppose that the powers operate against the interests of those concerned. In point of fact, nowadays far more elderly people remain in the community.

Lord Auckland

My Lords, is my noble friend satisfied that elderly people living in outlying and rural areas are adequately catered for, particularly during times such as the recent spell of very cold weather?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, there are voluntary and social service departments whose duty it is to make sure that people are adequately cared for. There is also such a thing as being a good neighbour and reporting any case to those authorities.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, the noble Baroness has referred to the speed and efficiency with which the Government acted during the recent cold spell. Will she admit that, if the Government had acted more speedily and more efficiently, several thousand old people who are now dead would be alive?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, that is a perfectly monstrous question.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, are the Government satisfied with the system of inspection and control of the many private nursing homes that have proliferated since the Government were instrumental in many of the local authority homes being closed down? There have been some very bad cases of exploitation, neglect and very high charges made, as well as enormous profits.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, if it is a local authority home, there are avenues open for action against authorities that fail to fulfil their legal obligations. Action is available for people who are not satisfied with standards in private homes. Local authorities and health authorities are responsible for monitoring standards in such homes and have the power to cancel registration. Where necessary, they can apply to the court for an order closing a home as a matter of urgency.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, in her earlier reply the noble Baroness mentioned local authorities and their responsibilities, and that is exactly one of the problems. There is no universal application or interpretation by local authorities of their responsibilities under the Mental Health Act 1983 or under the 1948 National Assistance Act, Section 47 which was mentioned by my noble friend on the Front Bench. It is because of that—

Noble Lords

Question!

Lord Stallard

—that I am asking the noble Baroness whether she will reconsider her reply and recommend that the working party that exists at the Home Office should be strengthened by representa-tives from other involved departments, plus voluntary organisations, to see whether we can reach one coherent strategy for the care of the old.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, local authorities already have a legal duty to provide services which they are satisfied a disabled or elderly person needs. It could be difficult for the courts to decide on professional matters concerning the degree and the extent of social service provision. As well as introducing an undesirable element of legislation into personal caring, the proposal would appear to involve an intervention Order—if that is what the noble Lord is referring to—which would have considerable cost consequences for local authorities, and possibly health authorities, too. The noble Lord will be well aware of the protection which exists already for disabled elderly people.