Protection of Animals Act 1911 (Hansard, 11 March 1987)

§ Lord Brougham and Vaux
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Minister of State, Home Office (The Earl of Caithness)
My Lords, the Government have no plans to amend the Protection of Animals Act 1911. However, we are supporting the Bill introduced in another place which seeks to double the maximum penalties under the 1911 Act.

§ Lord Brougham and Vaux
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that moderate reply. Is he aware that last year complaints to the RSPCA were up by about 29 per cent, cautions were up by 60 per cent, but convictions were down by 10 per cent? While I realise that the Bill in another place will go some way to alleviate the position, are the police devoting enough resources to the problem?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, as the House will be aware, the police have a large number of demands made on them. However, I know that they take very seriously the problem of cruelty to animals and do all that they can to combat it. In this, as in all their work, the police have the wholehearted support of this Government. Their efforts, and those of the RSPCA inspectors, are invaluable in countering mistreatment of animals.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, would the Minister like to take this opportunity, on behalf of the whole House, of paying its tribute to the work of the RSPCA? Is not one of the objects of the RSPCA, in order to counter cruelty in some way, to obtain legislation not so much on penalties but on allowing the police by law the right to enter through a warrant premises where cruelty to animals is anticipated or suspected?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I am very happy on behalf of the Government to welcome the words of the noble Lord with regard to the RSPCA. Of course we applaud its very fine work in this area. However, we do not think it appropriate to give the police a general power of entry to private land or premises when investigating allegations of cruelty to animals. As the noble Lord will be aware, the question of the issuing of search warrants was discussed at length when the Police and Criminal Evidence Bill (now the Act) was before your Lordships in 1984. That confined the occasion to the more serious arrestable offences.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, I apologise to the noble Earl for returning to the Dispatch Box, but when Parliament allows police to enter premises—even the BBC on some occasions—in order to inspect documents, does it not seem weird that the Government are not prepared to consider a warrant when animal cruelty is suspected?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I think that there are differences between the cases. Many of the incidents to which the RSPCA has referred in discussions that I have had relate to incidents when owners were not present. Animals had been left in the home without food and water and there was, of course, no one to answer the door.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, while having discussions with the RSPCA, would the Minister also be prepared to consider seeking the views of the People's Dispensary for Sick Animals, who are knowledgeable in these affairs? I am sure that the PDSA would co-operate with the Government in the sort of legislation required to prohibit what is now going on.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the noble Lord opposite knows that we are always prepared to consult and to listen.

§ Lord Craigton
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there is a considerable worry about a case last year where a man stood on a hedgehog and killed it, but no conviction could be given under this Act? Is he aware that I offered a one-clause Private Member's Bill to his honourable friend in the Department of the Environ-ment if the Government would back it, and he was unable to give me that assurance?

The Earl of Caithness
Yes, my Lords, I am aware of my noble friend's questions.

The Earl of Halsbury
My Lords, is the noble Earl prepared to accept that the trouble is that the Act itself is now defective? Does he remember that some 10 years ago I repealed the Cruelty to Animals Act 1876 with the Laboratory Animals Protection Bill—the title that the noble Lord, Lord Mishcon, preferred for it—and the Government wriggled and wriggled to avoid accepting a change in the law? They always used as an excuse that we must wait upon Europe. I am tired of waiting upon Europe. This law is defective, out of date, and should be brought up to date.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, of course, as I am sure the noble Earl will be the first to appreciate, there has been considerable legislation since 1911. In fact. I see that some 150-plus orders or Acts of Parliament have been passed since then, eight last year under this Government.

Lord Winstanley
My Lords, would the noble Earl accept that recurrent, frequent reports of obscene cruelty to animals in Britain are as damaging to British prestige as is the behaviour of football hooligans on sports grounds? Does he accept that merely doubling fines is not a sufficient response?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the Bill also proposes to double the term of imprisonment. I can assure the noble Lord that this Government deplore any cruelty to animals.

§ Baroness Strange
My Lords, would this not be an opportunity for the Minister, on behalf of Her Majesty's Government, to assure everybody that the opinion of this whole House is firmly on the side of the animals because we British are a nation of animal lovers?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I endorse the question of my noble friend. Of course, the fact that we are animal lovers was one of the reasons for so many complaints, as mentioned by my noble friend Lord Brougham.

§ Lord Brougham and Vaux
My Lords, may I thank my noble friend for the courteous way in which he has answered questions put from all sides of the House? I raised the Question not on a political basis but as an animal lover. Since the 1911 Act was passed, people have been keeping pets other than the dogs and cats of those days.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, indeed, and I am grateful to my noble friend. Of course, the range of animals that have been kept by people has changed, as he so rightly says.