§ 2.47 p.m.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government when they expect the necessary computerisation of the national network of offices of inspectors of taxes to be completed.
517§ The Secretary of State for Employment (Lord Young of Graffham)My Lords, the Inland Revenue is carrying out a number of major computerisation projects. The computerisation of the entire PAYE and Schedule D systems will be completed as planned by the end of 1988. This will be followed by projects in local offices covering making of assessments for corporation tax. Collection offices are also being provided with an on-line computer system. These projects should all have been completed by the early 1990s.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his reply. Is he aware that local offices are still writing to businessmen asking for basic information which has already been supplied and is normally supplied to another office? Is not this the kind of unnecessary form-filling which my noble friend himself is very rightly trying to eliminate to assist the British economy?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. It is true that some local offices are still writing to businessmen asking for basic information, but that is because these offices are in the process of setting up their computerised record systems and there may well be occasions when duplicate information is necessary and is requested. I hope that this is very much a problem of transition.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, will the noble Lord clarify that reply a little? One can understand PAYE in its totality being computerised, and likewise Schedule D. However, does not the noble Lord agree that what is important is the degree of intercommunication computerised facilities that avoid the issue of oceans of paper from different offices to the same person? It would be very much simpler to have the paper issued from one office only. Can the noble Lord give some indication on progress in that respect?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, it is important to put the whole programme into perspective. After all, it is the biggest on-line system in Europe. It started in 1980, was due for completion in 1987 and was completed on time. It involved building 11 computer centres, 600 local offices and installing 28,000 VDUs. It entails the computerisation of 28,000 taxpayer records, 1.1 million employer records and 34 million Schedule D records. When all that is completed I hope that we shall be able to see an elimination of unnecessary paper—but not, I hope, a diminution in the amount of taxes collected where they are correctly collected from people.
§ Lord DiamondMy Lords, with regard to any of the figures, can the Minister give us some idea of the estimated cost of computerisation and the estimated saving in labour that will follow from it?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, when the present programme is completed, some 4,600 people will be released from Inland Revenue work and I hope that we shall achieve a better service. I shall be very happy to put a note in the Library about the total cost of the project which spans the best part of a decade.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, I am sorry to press the Minister, but are we to gather from his answers that there will be no major upheaval in the country's direct taxation network which would necessitate very considerable reprogramming of the computerised system as it might then exist?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, if the noble Lord is trying to obtain some indication of what may or may not happen later this month, alas, he is unfortunate; but I know of no reason to cause any major upheaval.
§ Lord LeatherlandMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether this work in the tax inspectors' offices will mean any delay in sending out tax demands to taxpayers?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, computerisation is there for the express purpose of eliminating delays.