HL Deb 30 June 1987 vol 488 cc123-4

2.55 p.m.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what is the basis on which they record the number of in-patients treated in National Health Service hospitals, whether this includes re-admissions, and in particular whether it includes patients repeatedly admitted for renal dialysis.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Lord Skelmersdale)

My Lords, the basis on which records are kept is as follows. In-patients are persons who have gone through the full hospital admission procedure and are occupying a bed in the in-patient department at the time of the count, which is taken during the night. The figures on the number of in-patients treated are based on discharge, or death, at the end of an in-patient stay and they include re-admissions. Patients who occupy a bed during the day only, for purposes such as renal dialysis, are excluded.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, first, I should like to congratulate the noble Lord on his appointment to his present post which we warmly welcome. However, in doing so let me say that many of us will deeply regret the departure of the noble Baroness, Lady Trumpington, and will wish that we were speaking on agriculture, because she was, and still is, a very popular Member of this House. But I thank the noble Lord the Minister for his Answer, and for the frankness with which he admitted that re-admissions, however many times in a year, are considered for the record as new patients. I should like to ask him whether his Answer does not show that every statement made by the Prime Minister, the Secretary of State for Social Services or any other Minister or spokesman about the number of patients treated in NHS hospitals is, in fact, incorrect, because that information does not exist?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his introductory remarks and I shall, of course, pass them on to my noble friend Lady Trumpington. I agree with the noble Lord that a proper basis of comparison should be the number of patients treated which, as the House will know, has increased by 1 million since 1979. I am aware, of course, that there could be some anomalies in this calculation and it is a matter at which the Government are looking.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for agreeing to consult with his noble friend, as I think he did, about the method of determining patients. The noble Lord said that the House would know that there were 1 million more patients treated than in 1979. On what basis does he make that bold statement? Is it not true that with the ageing population many more patients are re-admitted; that, with the more rapid rate at which patients are dealt with, more patients are re-admitted, and that there is simply no basis at all for claiming that there have been 1 million, 500,000 or any other figure more patients treated than were treated at any other time in the history of the nation?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, the fact remains that in 1978 5,400,000 cases were treated and in 1985 that figure had risen to 6,400,000—an increase of 1 million.

Lord Ennals

Including re-admissions.