Zeebrugge Ferry Disaster: Inquiry Report (Hansard, 14 July 1987)

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I understand that Mr Justice Sheen intends to read the report of the inquiry in court on 24th July.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, I am grateful for the information which has been given by the Minister. The fact is that Parliament will be rising for some 12 weeks. May we have an assurance from the Government that their response to the report will also be published as soon as possible? Should the report indicate that certain matters are serious enough for action to be taken, will that action be taken before Parliament resumes towards the end of October? Moreover, if the report should indicate that an additional inquiry should be conducted into the superstructure, will the Government have such an inquiry instituted? If the report does not mention that, do the Government believe that there ought to be an additional inquiry into the superstructures of ferries?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that it is not any fault of the Government that the report will be issued on 24th July. That is a matter entirely in the hands of the judge. We have not sought to influence him in any way other than that he was well aware that we wanted the report to be published as soon as possible. As regards any matters which arise from the report, we shall act as speedily as we possibly can, bearing in mind the great public interest and concern for the safety of ferries. I can give the noble Lord the assurance that although Parliament may not be sitting, Ministers will not all be on holiday during those few months.
As regards the structure of ferries, already research has been commissioned into the matter. That will be going forward whether or not the report makes any recommendations on that matter.

Baroness Ryder of Warsaw
My Lords, in the light of this disaster and as one who is a frequent traveller on ferries because of the work that I do in other countries, will it become obligatory for passenger lists to be published? It has always seemed incredible to me that for all these years the making of passenger lists has not been an essential part of the duties of these different ferries and other ships.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, it is clear that on the short haul ferries passenger lists will not always be completed. Nevertheless, if when the court reports, it makes any recommendations on the matter I shall consider it carefully. What is absolutely essential is that the correct numbers are accounted for. That is something that has not been done properly and must be done in the future.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, in considering that matter, will my noble friend bear in mind—as I am sure he can in his other capacity in the department—that civil aircraft flying the shortest of domestic flights leave a full passenger list behind? If it is possible for them, what is the difficulty for the ferries?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, of course we shall indeed be considering this. We are talking about very many more people on ferries than on aircraft. There are difficulties in compiling an accurate list.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, will the noble Lord confirm that the Government themselves, and particularly the Department of Transport, have direct and considerable responsibilities in this case?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
Yes, my Lords, we have our statutory responsibilities for the safety of shipping.

§ Lord Annan
My Lords, can some sense of proportion be retained in respect of the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter? Is everyone now who travels on British Rail to be asked to give his name and be listed? Surely in this case the ferries and the rail service are alike?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, that is one of the difficulties in attempting to get a full passenger list on the short sea crossings. I am tempted to ask, if it were made appropriate for cross-Channel ferries, whether it would be necessary for instance on the Isle of Wight ferry which I know from personal experience would be extremely difficult to organise?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, as one who for a number of years has studied the design and stability of hulls, is the noble Lord aware that the redesign of these ferries will be necessary because they are not capable of totally safe operation at all times? Is he further aware of the need to redesign and considerably alter the harbours that the ferries use? That will cost an enormous sum of money. Will the matter be taken carefully into consideration so that some provision can be made for it, for we shall have to do it?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, we shall of course be studying the recommendations of the court very carefully. As I said in answer to an earlier supplementary question, research has already been commissioned to consider the viability of the different options available and this will have to be taken into account in any decision. I take note of what the noble Viscount has said.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, on this point would the Minister be prepared to accept proposals and submissions—if they should be made available as I am sure they will be—from the design engineers who have examined in detail this tragic disaster? They believe that they have a contribution to make towards averting such a disaster in the future.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara:
My Lords, I am not sure that I understood from the noble Lord who in particular had evidence to give, but I am sure that they would have given it at the inquiry. This whole matter was dealt with in great detail at the inquiry. No doubt that will be taken into account when the inspector submits his report.

§ Lord Diamond
My Lords, in view of the responsibilities of the Minister, which he has already acknowledged, can he assure us that everything practicable is already being done in advance of study of the report to secure the safety of passengers on this method of transport?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that we have not been idle. We have recommended the fitting of warning lights and television cameras to the ferries. I understand that nearly all the ferry companies have done so. We shall of course be considering in the light of the report whether these should be made a mandatory requirement. Marine surveyors have also inspected all cross-channel ferries and have made certain that the procedures for closing the watertight doors are being complied with properly.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, is not the distinction between air and sea travel and travel by other means that bodies can easily be traced following an accident on land but cannot so easily be traced if the accident happens in the air or at sea? Therefore, is not a passenger list more essential in those cases?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, there is very little more I can say about passenger lists. There would be benefits in having a full passenger list; it is just a question of its practical application.