EC Transport Ministers' Council (Hansard, 9 July 1987)

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)
My Lords, meetings of the Transport Council have been arranged for 26th October and 7th December 1987.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House whether we may take it that the liberalisation of air transport and the necessity for some urgent action will be included in the discussions on those dates? Can the noble Lord also clear up a point from last week? Does the Minister recall that on 2nd April he told the House that the Commission had decided that if the Council of Ministers had not reached agreement by 30th June it would withdraw the exemptions from the competition rules? Has this been done?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I very much hope that air transport will be back on the Council agenda on 26th October. This must, of course, depend upon whether the Commission and the European Parliament complete the new procedures required for the Single European Act by then. On the second point made by the noble Baroness about the offer of exemptions by the Commission, this is, of course, a matter for the Commission. However, I understand that the Commission does not intend to withdraw its proposal for group exemptions but instead is likely to put all its efforts into a new attempt to secure adoption of the package by the Council including the group exemptions.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, I regret that on the last point I became rather muddled halfway through. Is the Minister telling the House that the Commission has done what it said it would do and withdrawn the exemptions from the competition clause or is it still hedging, and has not done so?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
No, my Lords, at this stage it has not withdrawn its proposal for group exemptions.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, as the Transport Ministers' Council deals with matters besides aviation, can the Minister tell the House, particularly in the light of our debate next Wednesday on Britain's mercantile marine, whether there is any intention by the Council of Ministers to discuss the policies of certain Community countries with regard to the help that they give to their merchant navies?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, indeed there are at the moment proposals before the Commission as part of the second stage. The noble Lord will be aware that the first stage of the shipping policy was agreed last December. The Commission is currently working on proposals for a second stage of the common shipping policy; the proposals are aimed at harmonising aids which are given by Community governments to their merchant fleets and, indeed, strengthening the position of Community shipping industries in world markets. That might also arise in the course of discussions.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, can the Minister enlighten the House as to what steps the Government are proposing to take between now and 26th October, which is some three months away, so that we might hope for some action then? May I return to what the Minister has just said? Is he aware that I find it quite unbelievable, and I hope the House finds it unbelievable too, that apart from making no progress in Brussels, we now apparently have the Commission reneging on what it said before.
May I repeat and ask him whether he recalls telling us on 2nd April that the Commission had said that if the Council of Ministers did not reach agreement by 30th June, it would withdraw the exemptions which it had made to the competition rules? Do I understand the Minister to say that the Commission has done nothing about it, that the Government do not intend to press the Commission about it; and does he wonder that we have got nowhere on these matters after three years?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, dealing with the first point made by the noble Baroness, between now and 26th October the Government will be working very closely with the Commission to bring the package back to the Council in its present form. We shall be doing all we can to resolve the problem over Gibraltar. I hope the House will recognise that the room for manoeuvre is limited. We shall also be exploring with other EC countries the possibility of new bilateral arrangements based upon the political agreements reached in Luxembourg.
On the point concerning the Commission not withdrawing exemptions, it has been fairly clearly stated that that would happen if the Council of Ministers failed to reach agreement. The Council of Ministers did reach agreement on the package and the Ministers of all 12 states were behind the package with the single exception of the Spanish position on Gibraltar. The best way forward is to try to get the Gibraltar issue sorted out rather than go into court, which could take two years or longer and with uncertain results.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, the House is very patient but what is one to do? Somebody has to go on. Is the Minister aware that it is no use saying that the Council of Ministers reached agreement because they did not reach agreement? I am not concerned with the reason, but they did not reach agreement on this package. I am asking whether the Commission is now going to take the action which it said it would take, or is it not?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I hate to enter into an argument with the noble Baroness, but agreement was reached on the package with the single exception of the issue of Spain and Gibraltar. Therefore, I think the Commission feels that the best way forward is by agreement with the Council in sorting out the problem of Gibraltar rather than embarking upon court action through Article 89. That procedure would be lengthy and the results uncertain.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, is the Minister aware that since I have been a Member of this very important House, which is just over two years, I have heard nothing but Questions on the same subject from the noble Baroness, Lady Burton of Coventry? Will the Minister do us all a favour and kick the Council of Ministers right in the rear place so that we can stop listening to all this rubbish?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I am afraid I cannot take up the noble Lord on his last suggestion. The noble Baroness and the Government are at one in wanting to achieve liberalisation of European air transport and I am merely trying to explain what we think is the best way forward to achieve that.