§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, following the meetings of the European Community Transport Ministers Council held on 9th June and 24th/25th June, agreement was reached on a total package covering capacity sharing and market access; and whether they will make a statement on the progress made in the liberalisation of air transport in Europe.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)My Lords, the Transport Council met on the 9th, 24th–25th and 30th June, but was not able to adopt a package liberalising air transport in the Community because Spain refused to allow the package to apply to Gibraltar. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport was not prepared to compromise Gibraltar's legitimate rights in this way. Despite the fact that every other member state supported the package, the Spanish Government blocked it when they found they could not secure Gibraltar's exclusion.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, in wishing the Minister well in his publicly designated position as aviation Minister, although I have always regarded him as such in this House, may I ask him whether he is aware how very much I regret the position in Europe, where at last, after all these months and years of effort, we have succeeded in getting nowhere? May I also ask him whether it is possible to help us to get a step further? Does he recall that on 2nd April he told the House:
The Commission has in effect set a deadline of 30th June for agreement in the Council. After that it will withdraw its offer of some exemptions from the competition rules".—[Official Report, col. 692.]May I ask the Minister whether these exemptions have now been automatically withdrawn and whether it is the intention of the Commission to proceed now, at last, in this affair?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her kind remarks. I cannot say that my office has got off to a good start, this particular package having collapsed. As to the noble Baroness's question about whether the Commission would withdraw the exemption, we would expect the 342 Commission to continue its action to apply the competition rules under Article 89 of the treaty. We shall be discussing urgently with it how this might be done in conjunction with action by member states under Article 88, for which we are in the process of making arrangements.
§ Lord BethellMy Lords, may I also congratulate my noble friend on his appointment? Is he aware that some of us are delighted by the fact that the agreement broke down a few days ago? We believe that cheaper European air travel will be more easily and quickly brought about as a result of legal action and pursuance of such activities as those referred to by my noble friend. Will he confirm that the Government will now immediately take action under Article 88 to set rules to enforce the competition articles of the treaty? Will he also undertake to co-operate in every legal step which is taken to pursue those airlines which still fix fares and pool revenue in contravention of the treaty, and make sure that they are not allowed to practice and to do business in this country anymore?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, as I have already said, we expect the Commission to continue its action under Article 89. We shall be discussing with it urgently how we might help in this matter and whether we should take action ourselves under Article 88. At this stage I cannot give my noble friend any timetable for that. It is worth pointing out that all the member states having agreed to the package, it might easily be possible to get it brought back up again at the Council in September. I would not agree with my noble friend that it is necessarily quicker to go through the legal route than by agreement, and I certainly would not agree with him that the package was not worth having anyway. Indeed, certainly, the competition commissioner fully supported it.
§ Lord UnderhillMy Lords, does the Minister accept that the whole House regrets that this package has not turned out in the way that all of us would have expected and that we appreciate the efforts that the Government are making? But will he agree that this may now be something which is beyond the transport Ministers, and that the Foreign Secretary might be brought into this discussion?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, the noble Lord is quite right that most of us, except perhaps my noble friend, would have liked to see this package go through. As regards the negotiations with Spain over the issue of Gibraltar, that is of course a matter for my right honourable and learned friend the Foreign Secretary to pursue. But I think it worth pointing out that these negotiations on air transport have been going on for two years now and it was only on 9th June that the Spanish first raised the issue of Gibraltar.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, I think that the Government have done their best, although they have been unsuccessful, but it has not been enough. Does the Minister feel that now, at last, he will ask his right honourable friend in another place to bring the attention of the Prime Minister herself to 343 this matter in the hope that we might get some additional pressure to get things moving at the highest level?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I shall certainly take the noble Baroness's point. I am quite certain though that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister is only too well aware of these issues. Indeed, there was of course a meeting of heads of state in Europe at which I suspect this issue may well have come up.
§ Lord BethellMy Lords, is my noble friend not aware though that his department has in the recent past undertaken, I believe, in public to take action under Article 88 in the eventuality of a breakdown of this agreement by the end of June this year? Am I to understand that the Government are now reconsidering the question and may in the event not take action under Article 88?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraNo, my Lords. I said that we were talking to the Commission about whether it was going to take action under Article 89 and whether we should take action under Article 88. It is a little premature to decide immediately how we go about this, but we must find the quickest way possible of reaching an agreement. That may well of course be it.