HL Deb 27 January 1987 vol 483 cc1245-8

2.45 p.m.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what plans they have to act within the principles contained in the International Year of Shelter for the Homeless.

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, UN General Assembly Resolution 37/221 designated 1987 as the International Year of Shelter for the Homeless, particularly in the developing countries. Thus, we expect a greater proportion of our bilateral aid will be taken up by homelessness projects.

Within the United Kingdom the Government will continue to press local authorities to make best use of their housing stock.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, I am grateful for the Minister's Answer. I understand that financial resources have been made available. Is not the Minister aware that our record as regards the care of the homeless over the past few years has been very bad? Is he aware, for instance that since 1978 the number of homeless families, excluding single people who are not allowed to register, has risen from 50,000 to 105,000 last year? The annual increase in homeless families is now 10 per cent. If that continues, we face the possibility in the early 1990s of having 200,000 to 250,000 families homeless and at the mercy of the kind of weather which we experienced last week. Are the Government satisfied with that? If they are not satisfied, when will they do something about it?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, there have always been people who need to be housed by local authorities. In the period mentioned by the noble Lord there have been profound social changes: more divorces, more illegitimate births, more young people leaving home earlier and with enhanced expectations about accommodation. On the other hand, it is only fair to point out that the 100,000 homeless households quoted by the noble Lord have been found accommodation by local authorities.

Lord Jacques

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the employment of the present long-term unemployed on building houses would be far better for the nation than paying the colossal sums now paid to hotels for bed and breakfast accommodation?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, if that is so, then according to the theory presented by the noble Lord, Lord Dean of Beswick, it will not of itself mean a decrease in the numbers of homeless families.

Lord Lloyd of Kilgerran

My Lords, will the Minister give an assurance that among the Government's plans in this International Year of Shelter for the Homeless they will deal with the problem of squalor and safety which can arise in houses with multiple occupation? In asking that question I should declare an interest. Earlier this month I was appointed the President for Wales for the International Year of Shelter for the Homeless. At a very large meeting of over 300 people in the Palace of Peace in Cardiff my attention was drawn to the homelessness and the tragedies arising from recent fires in large houses in Pontypridd.

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord on his new position. I agree with him—as I and my noble friends have made clear from this Box on many occasions—that houses in multiple occupation (and I assume that the noble Lord is talking about hotels) should be used in absolutely last resort circumstances. As I said in my original Answer, we should continue to encourage local authorities to make the best use of their stock. Too many empty local authority properties exist—currently 1 12,000—of which 27,000 have been empty for more than a year. It is even worse in London where there are 27,800 vacant, of which 9,800 have been empty for more than a year.

Lord Lloyd of Kilgerran

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his answer and for his kind words about me. I should make it clear that I am under the jurisdiction of the president for the whole of the United Kingdom, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Scarman.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, is the Minister aware that those councils which are struggling to make the best use of their existing stock are those which are suffering most from the financial cuts imposed by the Government? Would it not be more positive if the Government, as a further contribution to the International Year of Shelter for the Homeless, were to review the finances of those local authorities so that they can deal with the empty council flats that he has mentioned and hand them over to the homeless?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I do not think that this is a financial problem. Some time ago when we were discussing this matter we heard from my noble friend Lady Macleod about local authority properties in London which were fit for habitation, but which were not being let. That must be a scandal in any sense of the word.

Lord Mellish

My Lords, while recognising that this is a national problem, and cutting out party politics because this situation causes a great deal of distress, does the Government not recognise that the time is well overdue when they as a Government ought to move in because of some of the inept behaviour of some of the local authorities concerned? In his reply, the Minister said that this is a matter for local authorities. Is that to keep empty flats and houses year after year and do nothing about it? When are we going to make these local authorities use such properties, instead of talking about the situation?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, the noble Lord speaks as he usually does when he addresses your Lordships' House—with very great force and with very useful ideas! But I do not think that it would be appropriate for Government to use legislative powers in this way to force local authorities to do that which the noble Lord currently suggests.

The Lord Bishop of Southwark

My Lords, would the Minister not agree that housing associations also have a very important part to play in relieving homelessness, and that this international year would be a very good opportunity to develop their work still further?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I certainly agree with the right reverend Prelate. An extra £20 million has been found for 30 per cent. housing action grant for private finance schemes which are directed at the homeless. Also, within the urban programme almost £20 million has been found for renovative and wide-ranging housing schemes. Advice to local authorities via circulars on empty properties and houses in multiple occupation is constantly on the boil. The estates action initiatives have been extremely successful, but I fully recognise that there is more to do in all these respects.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, when the Minister says that the financial provisions are not the reason for this situation, is he not aware that successive reports that have been debated in your Lordships' House and one which will be debated in the near future all call for a substantial increase in government funding to deal with the housing crisis? Is the Minister not aware that calculations show that cuts made by the present Government since 1979 have lost over half a million new housing units to the public sector? Bearing this in mind, do the Government not realise that they are responsible for some of the conditions which now appertain.

Lord Skelmersdale My Lords, I find that a rather interesting question asked immediately after that of the right reverend Prelate. If the housing associations are so good, and I believe them to be good, in their re-letting and their down time on property units, they receive very much less money from the Government. That is why I said that in my opinion it was not a financial problem for the local authorities.

Lord Winstanley

My Lords, is not the renovation of empty and dilapidated homes a labour-intensive activity? Are not the materials needed all home produced? Therefore, would it not be economically desirable for unemployed construction workers to be doing that work here and now?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, the problems about a sudden massive increase in the building or repairs programme are that industry needs time to produce those very materials to which the noble Lord has just referred. In the meantime, the only available source of supply would be from imports.

Lord Elton

My Lords, if the Minister is so sympathetic towards the homeless, why can the Government not release the money from the sale of the council houses in order to allow the housing authorities to continue building houses?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, in this country there has always been a restriction in the amount of money that local authorities were able to release from their capital receipts—certainly since I took an interest and under the last Labour Government. The fact that their capital receipts overall are not so much higher than they were necessitated a reduction from 45 per cent. to 20 per cent. in 1980.