HL Deb 22 January 1987 vol 483 cc1032-4

3.17 p.m.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, as the heads of all 12 EC countries have signed the European Single Act, which will allow proposals that improve competition within the EC to be approved by majority vote, countries will no longer be subject to unanimous decision on the liberalisation of European air fares; and when it is expected that the Act will be ratified.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)

My Lords, when all member states of the European Community have ratified the Single European Act, the Council of Ministers will be able to act on a qualified majority in deciding on aviation proposals from the Commission. Ireland has not yet ratified and it is not clear how long it will be before the Irish Government can do so.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, do I take it from that that no progress on this matter can be made until ratification takes place? If that is so, will the Minister be kind enough to tell the House what action the Government, as a member of the European Community Transport Ministers' Council, intend to take to expedite the matter? What is the date of the next meeting of the council?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, there is nothing this Government can do about ratification. As I said in my original Answer, it is the subject of a court case in Ireland at the moment. The Single European Act will not come into force until all states have ratified the Act. I cannot say how long it will be before the Irish court case is over. As regards the proposals put before the transport committee, the present arrangements will obviously continue.

Lord Gladwyn

My Lords, is Ireland the only state which has not yet ratified?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, yes.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, I am sorry, but the Minister forgot to tell me the date of the next meeting of the council.

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I apologise. It is 24th March next.

Lord Mulley

My Lords, although I sympathise with the noble Baroness's concern about this matter, I hope the Government will realise that many other questions are involved before they give unqualified support for the operation of a qualified majority on all matters within the council.

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, this Question specifically relates to aviation matters before the Transport Council and I have answered it as regards the Single European Act.

Lord Underhill

My Lords, perhaps I may ask the noble Lord to clarify an important matter arising from the Question and from his Answer. Although it specifically refers to European air fares, it also refers generally to proposals to improve competition. Will the Minister clarify the position? Does the Answer mean that any steps of regulation—I use the word "regulation" in its wider sense—dealing with aviation or airports which the United Kingdom Government may wish to embark upon could be affected by a majority decision?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, we are talking about the general competition proposals which are before the European Economic Community Transport Council. As regards the other matters raised by the noble Lord, if they came before the Transport Council, my understanding is that when the Single European Act is ratified by all states they would be subject to qualified majority voting. That is my understanding of the position.

Lord Denning

My Lords, need we wait until the Single European Act eventually becomes law? Under existing law is it not possible to liberalise these air fares? Is it not the position that under the existing treaty an abuse of a dominant position is a breach of the treaty and unfair competition is also a breach of the treaty, and that those breaches can be dealt with by the courts of law? Can they be dealt with not only by the European Court of Justice itself but also by our national courts under the decisions already given? Am I not right in saying that Articles 85 and 86 can be enforced in our national courts in order to deal with an abuse of a dominant position and unfair competition?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, under the present arrangements we have been trying very hard to achieve liberalisation in European aviation. As regards whether we can deal with the matter in our own courts, I suspect that the answer is no, because unless one wishes to fly wholly within this country another country becomes involved.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, does the noble Lord apprehend that when the Act is ratified the application of the qualified majority to the question raised by the noble Baroness will produce a position satisfactory to Her Majesty's Government?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I very much hope so, provided of course that the Commission and the Belgian presidency stand firm and put an acceptable package of measures before the council.

Lord Kilbracken

My Lords, does the noble Lord realise that there will be no government at all in Ireland until 18th February at the earliest, and after that there will probably be a very unstable government?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, that does not affect the Question. The Government of Ireland have already agreed to the Single European Act. That will not be affected by the result of the election and it is at present a matter before the Irish courts.