HL Deb 19 January 1987 vol 483 cc705-6

2.37 p.m.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what is their policy in respect of proposals to convert secondary schools which operate a system of selective entry on merit into comprehensive schools.

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, under the Education Act 1980 the Secretary of State has a statutory duty to consider proposals for the reorganisation of schools on their individual merits. In exercising that duty he has regard, inter alia, to parental preference for retention of grammar schools, and to whether the established quality of the school is likely to be maintained.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, in thanking my noble friend for that encouraging reply, may I ask whether she is aware that the council of the borough of Kingston-upon-Thames, which is under Left-wing control, is proposing to abolish two of the best schools in England—the Tiffin schools? Can she confirm that her Answer means that this is not possible without the consent of her right honourable friend?

Baroness Hooper

Indeed, yes, my Lords. The Secretary of State is currently considering proposals under Section 12 of the Education Act 1980 for the closure of 10 grammar schools. Whether the schools which my noble friend has mentioned are among those 10, I do not know. Certainly if proposals are brought forward by a local education authority the consent of the Secretary of State is required.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, will it not be absurd if the Government prohibits the abolition of selection in a borough like Kingston when they have allowed this to happen in Right-wing boroughs such as Bromley?

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, the closure of any school is approved only when the Secretary of State for Education and Science is satisfied that it is unlikely to be able to sustain its established quality, and that the alternative provision is likely to be better. Decisions must be taken on the individual merits of particular proposals.

Baroness Cox

My Lords, is my noble friend the Minister aware that both research and the figures of the DHSS have shown that overall a selective system of secondary education with secondary modern and grammar schools performs better than a comprehensive system in terms of examination results? Will she therefore agree that it would be very sad to see more good schools closed?

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, evidence indeed shows a slight statistical correlation between selective schools and enhanced examination results, particularly at O-level. This will be taken into account by the Secretary of State in exercising his statutory duty to decide cases individually on their merits.

Baroness Seear

My Lords, when the noble Baroness says that the views of parents will be taken into account, will they be the views of parents who already have children in those schools or the views of parents who do not have children in those schools? Since it is a borough decision, should not the views of all parents be taken into account?

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, once proposals are published, I understand that the Secretary of State receives written objections from parents or from anybody else who wishes to write in. The views of all parents would therefore be taken into account.

Lord Nugent of Guildford

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, as a past member of the Surrey County Council for some years, I can remember that the standing of the Tiffin schools in Kingston was so high that every parent in Kingston hoped that their boy or girl would get into one or the other of those schools?

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, parental preference is a very strong consideration in this matter, and I am sure that parents will take the opportunity to present their objections in this particular case.