Solicitors: Racial Origins (Hansard, 26 February 1987)

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Lord Chancellor (Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone)
My Lords, in view of the welcome appearance of daffodils on both Front Benches, I ought perhaps to begin this Answer by disclaiming for myself any Welsh ancestry!
I am informed by the Law Society that this year's practising certificate application form had attached to it a question, the answer to which was not compulsory, relating to the ethnic origin of the applicant. The question reflected the Law Society's commitment to ensuring equal opportunity within the profession.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for answering the Question. I understand from the Law Society that he is not personally responsible. However, are the Government aware that there are two sides to the question of ethnic monitoring such as that carried out this year among solicitors? On one side there is the positive assistance given to those wishing to ensure that there is no discrimination on ethnic grounds. I believe that all your Lordships would agree with that position.
On the other side of the exercise is the possibility that the use of ethnic monitoring of this kind can help to fragment British society along the lines of ethnic origin of parents and even colour of skin. Those two sides must be balanced and the dangers of the latter case must be recognised and balanced against the positive side which I have mentioned and which can be used to prevent discrimination.

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for acknowledging that I do not speak for the Law Society. I am aware that there are two sides to 326 all such questions. The professional bodies, in their desire to eliminate racial discrimination, work very closely with the CRE (the Commission for Racial Equality) and with NACRO (the National Association for the Care and Rehabilitation of Offenders). So far as I am aware, the other side has so far been represented by Mr. Enoch Powell.

§ Lord Mishcon
Who, my Lords, I do not represent in this House! Will the noble and learned Lord confirm, if it is within his knowledge, that those representing minority groups in this country have applauded the care of the Law Society in these matters and therefore the marshalling of statistics? Is he aware that the Law Society has contributed to a project to look into those very matters, in the sum of £50,000? Will the noble and learned Lord kindly take it from me that I have the honour to be the patron of that project?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, I was aware of the generous help given by the Law Society to this very worthy project, though I was not aware, I must confess, that the noble Lord was its patron. I congratulate the noble Lord on having that post.
I believe that on the whole the action of both legal professional bodies has met with approval and I think it is probably the only way in which it can be ascertained how racial discrimination may be eleminated. I accept from the noble Lord, Lord Hatch of Lusby, that one may argue the other way. With some names it is of course easy to recognise at once a person of Moslem or perhaps Jewish origin. However, a name like Smith might mean anything.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, will the noble and learned Lord agree that the daffodils on the Labour Front Bench become them much better than the roses which they recently donned?

Te Lord Chancellor
My Lords, were it not for the fact that my noble friend on his Front Bench is also wearing one, I think I should be disposed to agree that daffodils become Wales and roses should be the emblem of England!

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, is the noble and learned Lord aware that roses are in fact the emblem of these Benches?

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, I again thank the noble and learned Lord for the Answer which he has given. I wholeheartedly agree with the first part of that Answer as regards positive attempts to eliminate racial discrimination. I deplore the suggestion that those who are concerned about the fragmentation of British society according to ethnic origins extend far wider than the noble and learned Lord's former colleague, Mr. Enoch Powell.

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Lord is so eager to dissociate himself from my former colleague. All I wished to indicate was that the persons who adopt that point of view do not represent majority opinion.

§ Lord Elwyn-Jones
My Lords, is it not also the case that the proportion of those from the ethnic minorities 327 coming to the Bar is also increasing considerably? In regard to the floral references from the Woolsack, may I assure the noble and learned Lord that we do not propose to make the wearing of the daffodil compulsory?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, from my visits to Cumberland Lodge and other places where students foregather, I have every reason to believe the number of those of ethnic origins who aspire to the Bar and are called is on the increase. But it will be St. Patrick's day for me!