Drugs: Customs Seizures (Hansard, 9 February 1987)

§ Lord Rodney
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Secretary of State for Employment (Lord Young of Graffham)
My Lords, because drug misuse and trafficking are illicit activities and subject to changes in fashion, it is difficult to draw firm conclusions from the provisional Customs drug seizure statistics for 1986 which were announced last month.
The approximate 45 per cent. drop in heroin seizures reflects a similar decrease in other western European countries. Together with a marked reduction in the purity of heroin seized at import and a slight increase in street prices, this suggests that less illicit heroin was in circulation in 1986. However, despite these encouraging signs, the Government do not consider that there is room for complacency. Heroin is still a significant problem and the continued rise in Customs seizures of cocaine and amphetamines is of great concern.

§ Lord Rodney
My Lords, I should like to thank my noble friend the Minister for that very interesting reply. Can he tell the House whether any progress is being made on the development of automatic detection devices for drugs?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend, but, alas, I am unable to inform the House at this moment whether progress is being made in new devices for detecting drugs. I shall however write to my noble friend and put a copy of the letter in the Library. We must be a little cautious about the precise changes in technology lest those who are interested find out too much.

§ Lord Shaughnessy
My Lords, can the noble Lord the Minister tell us what progress, if any, is being made in combating the production and trafficking of illegal drugs in the source and transit countries before they reach these shores?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
Yes, my Lords. We are, of course, in concert with our European neighbours, placing officers in many of the countries from which these drugs emanate. We have, in the whole of this field, the demonstration of an unfortunate use of enterprise. It is important that we should look at the sources of drugs and see what steps we can take to 420 reduce their export potential. But it is also important that we keep these matters under as close a scrutiny as possible ourselves.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that we shall study the final figures with very great interest when these are published? In the meantime, does the noble Lord now realise that the operation of free market forces, to which the Government are so much addicted, is proving in this field most difficult for them to control?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord for his ingenuity in somehow once again being able to bring the general economic picture into this field. Happily, we live in a market economy; happily we benefit greatly from it, but occasionally, we have to look at some small aspect of it.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, arising out of the question of the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, is not the obvious answer to nationalise the production of this product and thereby diminish it?

§ Lord Hooson
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that there is a perceptible change of attitude, particularly among young people, towards drug taking, and is this not the result of much more publicity being given to its effects? Are there not signs of resistance in the increased price on the street where the number of purchasers has gone down?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
Yes, my Lords. But this is a field of changing fashions. While it is true that our provisional figures show a 45 per cent. decrease in the amount of heroin seized, there was a 20 per cent. increase in the amount of cocaine. We have to keep a close watch on this whole developing field and see what steps we can take at the right time.

§ Lord Brougham and Vaux
My Lords, did my noble friend read a report a couple of days ago about a large quantity of drugs from Nigeria? Would Her Majesty's Government consider putting a customs officer in Nigeria as they have done in Pakistan and various other countries?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, at the present time we have two drug liaison officers in Pakistan, two in India, two in Latin America, one in the Caribbean and one in the Mediterranean area. Another is shortly to be posted in Europe. I shall certainly take note of the noble Lord's suggestion and communicate with the relevant authorities.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the Government's difficulty in following the advice offered to it by the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, is that under current profit ratios, the Government would immediately privatise it?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, I am grateful for the great effort that is required to climb once again to the commanding heights of industry.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, is not what is really important the number of officers who can be appointed to this very important job? I refer not merely to increased office staff but, if I may use a very old-fashioned phrase, to the number of riding officers who are actually on the ground, going round and investigating the matter? Can the noble Lord give us any figures?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, the number of preventative staff is going up. It should be of some comfort to all in your Lordships' House that last year the number of arrests went up by 37 per cent. and the number of seizures by 19 per cent. I do not believe that numbers of people are as important as their output in the number of arrests.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, does the Minister agree that in this vicious and terrible business of illegal drugs, the real contribution in efforts to reduce it and to bring it under ultimate control comes from the public sector? The officials that he has named, such as the Customs and Excise, are all folk in the public sector. Do Ministers not think that they deserve some credit for their endeavours?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, it is extremely difficult not to give credit to Customs officers, to the police and to all of the public sector for their great endeavours. This is hardly an activity for the private sector.

§ Baroness Masham of Ilton
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that the recent swoop by the Spanish police on some British people living in Spain and trafficking in drugs is most encouraging?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, I think that we should all take credit when the police swoop on any nationalities anywhere in order to reduce this vile trade.