HL Deb 27 April 1987 vol 486 cc1245-53

3.37 p.m.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Northern Ireland Office (Lord Lyell)

My Lords, with the permission of your Lordships I shall repeat a Statement made in another place by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. The Statement is as follows: "With permission, Mr. Speaker, I wish to make a Statement on the current security situation.

"The House will be aware of the recent serious increase in the number of casualties caused by terrorist actions. In the last week in particular two members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, one Ulster Defence Regiment soldier and three civilians have been murdered. The civilian deaths were of the foreman of a building company, and most recently the murder of Lord Justice Gibson and Lady Gibson. In respect of the details of this latest outrage, while I have not yet received the full report on it, I have had an initial discussion with the Deputy Chief Constable and the General Officer Commanding and will be meeting the Chief Constable and the GOC again later today. However, I am giving the House some further information. The explosives were in a blue Cortina car, which had been reported stolen a month ago in South Armagh. At the time of its theft the car had GB number plates. It is believed to have been left only a few minutes earlier at the side of the road between the border crossing point and the security force checkpoint. The method of detonation appears to have been by radio signal. In addition to the two fatalities, there were nine other people injured.

"The question has been rightly raised as to how there could have been any outside knowledge of Sir Maurice and Lady Gibson's movements. The RUC advised me of evidence that the bookings were made in their own names through a travel agency in Belfast on 29th December, and that on 12th February a change was made to the date of their return. The hooking form included the description and registration number of the car. Further detailed investigations are continuing and I will inform the House as appropriate of any further information. I know the whole House will share with me the feelings of horror at this outrage, at the loss of a distinguished and brave member of the Northern Ireland judiciary and of his wife, and will wish me to express our deepest sympathy to their families.

"But, Mr. Speaker, while public attention has been focussed on this particular outrage, it would be quite wrong not to express our deep concern equally about the other tragic victims of this most recent and savage burst of terrorist violence. The recent and cowardly attacks on off-duty members of the security forces, coupled with murders of policemen in Newcastle and Portrush, and the murder of the civilian prison instructor of Magee College and the use of his body to lure two further members of the RUC to their deaths, are indicative of a renewed desperation and viciousness in the IRA campaign. The security forces will meet the challenge of these new tactics by the IRA with the resolution and courage that have stood them so well in the past, and the Government will give them all possible support in their vital task.

"But while the role of the RUC and armed forces is crucial in the front line against terrorism, they need also the unqualified support of the community as a whole in their task. The clear purpose of the IRA at this time is to undermine the morale of the security forces, to increase tension and hatred between the communities and thus to provoke overreaction from some Unionists and to create distrust and between the governments of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland. That is its purpose but it will not succeed.

"The security forces have given abundant proof of their courage and determination to stand against terrorism. What they now look to is the whole community to show the same steadfastness in the face of the current campaign and for everybody to show particular vigilance over their personal security. Above all, it is the time when the whole community must give its unqualified support for the RUC and the armed forces, and give the fullest co-operation in this vital fight to defeat the terrorists".

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

Lord Prys-Davies

My Lords, we thank the noble Lord, Lord Lyell, for repeating a Statement made in another place by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. From these Benches, we wish to be fully associated with the horror and condemnation expressed in the Statement at the deliberate murder last Saturday morning of Lord Justice Gibson, Northern Ireland's second most senior judge, and Lady Gibson. I am sure that the whole House will want to express its revulsion at this murder. Although it is not mentioned in the Statement, we have noticed with satisfaction the condemnation universally voiced in the Republic of Ireland and articulated in particular by the Prime Minister of the Republic.

I think it is well known that Lord Justice Gibson sought fairly to apply and defend the rule of law in a divided and torn community. His task was not an easy one to discharge. His life was therefore vulnerable at all times. We have also been reminded by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in his Statement that the officers of the Royal Ulster Constabulary who enforce the rule of law on the streets of the Province are likewise vulnerable and that many have paid the ultimate price.

In the outrage last Saturday morning on the main highway between Dublin and Belfast we see but the latest manifestation of the sustained, vicious campaign of terrorism, sometimes fought with sophisticated weaponry, which has been waged in Northern Ireland for almost 20 years and which has tragically escalated during the past few months. Despite all the efforts of the police and security forces and despite the political initiatives taken by the Government, which we on these Benches fully support, the campaign of violence and murder continues.

That may suggest that the people who can most effectively answer the challenge of terrorism are the members of the two communities in Northern Ireland, accepting that they cannot provide support, cover and haven for the men of violence, and accepting, in the words of the Secretary of State's Statement, that the whole community must be defended by the whole community. We therefore endorse from these Benches the appeal made by the Secretary of State to all the people of Northern Ireland for their unqualified support and steadfastness in the face of the current campaign. We implore that there should be no reprisals following the murder of Lord Justice Gibson and Lady Gibson, as they would only further the objectives to which the terrorists are committed.

In a democracy, one cannot guarantee security all the time. Nevertheless, we have a feeling—it is no more than that—that the police and the security forces may be able to learn some lessons from this tragedy. How is it that the security intelligence appears to have failed to detect the plot to assassinate the Lord Justice? How is it that the vehicle in which the bomb had been planted was allowed to park on the road, if only, as is acknowledged in the Statement, for a few minutes, so near to a manned police checkpoint? Why was it allowed to remain in that position?

The fact that this deliberate, planned murder took place within a mile of a permanent, manned police checkpoint in broad daylight when it was known, or ought to have been known, to the security forces that Lord Justice Gibson would be driving along the road to which the checkpoint had a frontage, may indicate that the security forces on duty there and generally may, at least on that day, have been too casual in their approach to their duties. We should be pleased to be assured by further inquiries that we are totally wrong about that.

Finally, on these Benches we express our deepest sympathy to the family of Sir Maurice Gibson, to the families of the Royal Ulster Constabulary officers and to the families of the civilians who have been killed, and also to those who have been maimed by the men of violence.

3.45 p.m.

Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge

My Lords, I wish to follow the noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies, in expressing outrage and condemnation of this most offensive crime. Lord Justice Gibson was known, respected and honoured throughout Northern Ireland and in the South. All noble Lords who have worked in Northern Ireland will agree with me when I say that he was one of the judges who risked their lives by their very profession. He was in the front line and he has given his life for his country as nobly as anyone can.

The difference between fighting the IRA and fighting a war is that one's wife does not usually get killed with one, unless it is done by the IRA. This is the third or fourth time that it has killed families. Some were distinguished and some were undistinguished, but both kinds of killings are equally horrible. We must never let our hatred of this enemy ease up. Even though we are told to love our enemies, this is one which goes too far for me.

No comment can usefully be made about these events at this stage. A number of things obviously need explanation. I see no point in going into them until they are fully explained. My recollection is that the no man's land either side of the border was established because otherwise it was too easy for RUC cars to be identified and attacked. I think I am right in saying that that has gone on for a good many years, so we cannot blame any particular government or Secretary of State for allowing what seems in retrospect to be an odd system. I shall not comment on it.

I shall comment on the point which was so well made by the Secretary of State—that not only a distinguished man and his wife have been killed but a number of, as it were, junior officers, non-commissioned men and front line troops have been killed and continue to be killed the whole time. The Secretary of State was right to suggest that the IRA's hope in doing this is to make the Unionists attack the South on the grounds of inadequate security, to make the South unhappy about our Government, and generally to engender ill-feeling and distrust. I agree with the Secretary of State that the only way we from this angle can help the war that is going on against these very unprincipled and desperate characters is by trying to prevent our friends quarrelling among themselves.

Lord Lyell

My Lords, first I think that all of us would share the words of outrage that have been expressed by the noble Lords, Lord Prys-Davies and Lord Donaldson, about this foul outrage on the persons of Lord and Lady Gibson. But, above all, I think that everybody in Northern Ireland will be grateful for the unstinting support of the two noble Lords for the security forces and for the families of the security forces who, as your Lordships are aware, bear such a burden themselves.

With regard to the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies, I am able to tell him that further inquiries are being carried out about the travel arrangements made by Lord Justice Gibson. I would not want to go further on that today. However, anything that we can learn we shall certainly take into account.

I stress to the noble Lord that there is no element of casualness in the performance of their duties by any members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary. Your Lordships would not expect me to make any disclosure of police movements, particularly in this area near the border, at Killeen, up to the border and around it. Your Lordships will be aware that three Royal Ulster Constabulary constables and one woman constable were killed about 23 months ago in a mortar attack about half a mile from the scene of the murder of Lord Justice Gibson. I am able to say that the security forces patrol throughout the whole area, but again I make no disclosure as to what happened on this occasion. Once again I thank the noble Lord, Lord Donaldson, for his robust support for the words of my right honourable friend.

The Earl of Onslow

My Lords, will my noble friend make it absolutely clear to the Unionist community that it is no use their cutting wire, tearing up Acts of Parliament, generally marching around the place, banging Lambeg drums, playing fifes, and all those kinds of things, tying up Royal Ulster Constabulary time, when that time is much more valuably spent in trying to root out and destroy this particularly ugly form of murder? Furthermore, is it not ironic that they have the same idea of destroying the Anglo-Irish Agreement as the IRA? Can this also be pointed out, because we must root out terrorism and then peace might possibly return to Ireland, doubtful though that may be?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, the House will note the comments on and robust support of my noble friend for the Anglo-Irish Agreement. I think that we are in total agreement with the points that have been raised by him about the futility of sundry protests and gestures which are made and which are recognised by everybody in Northern Ireland as distracting the security forces, not least the Royal Ulster Constabulary, from their main task of allowing every citizen in Northern Ireland to carry on his or her daily life free of terrorism.

Lord Blease

My Lords, I join in thanking the Minister for repeating the Statement made by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in another place and also for his comments to his noble friend. I also join in the support given in the statement of my noble friend Lord Prys-Davies from the Front Bench and the remarks by the noble Lord, Lord Donaldson, who has considerable experience in Northern Ireland. I join with them in support of the security forces and their efforts to eradicate terrorism from the shores of Ireland.

May I ask the Minister whether he is aware of the feelings of revulsion throughout Ireland, both North and South, that have swept across the community in the face of this latest IRA onslaught? May I further ask him whether he is aware of the strong announcement made by the Taoiseach, Mr. Charles Haughey, who in offering his sympathy to the relatives and friends of all those who were killed in this recent outburst of terrorism last week in Ireland declared: I wish to solemnly assure them"— they are the relatives and friends of those killed and injured— that no effort will be spared in security co-operation to bring the perpetrators to justice"? I welcome that statement by the Taoiseach and the Republic. I would also welcome just as strong a statement from the Benches of the Opposition. I am not sure that the Statement made in the other place and repeated in this House was indeed that firm and as strong.

I further wish to ask the Minister whether, having left the shores of Ireland this morning, he and his ministerial colleagues in Northern Ireland are aware of the deep sense of anxiety—indeed the acute concern—expressed throughout by the people of Northern Ireland that apparently there is not the determination, the expertise necessary in security matters or indeed the will in some cases to get to grips with terrorism and to bring it under some form of control if not to wipe it out.

I wholeheartedly agree with the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, that politicians in Northern Ireland ought to take themselves in hand. Those may not be his exact words but I agree with the sentiment. They ought to be here at Westminster dealing with democratic principles rather than tearing out barbed wire and taking up the time of the police and other security personnel who should be getting to grips with real terrorism. I should like a full assurance from the Minister today that a proposal for co-operation in both North and South with all levels of the security forces will be put forward in a concrete form rather than just a series of other talks again taking place.

Lord Lyell

My Lords, of course I give the assurance that co-operation between the Republic of Ireland and Her Majesty's Government on security matters is of the utmost importance. It is constantly being discussed. It is discussed at every meeting on the Anglo-Irish Agreement. I reassure the noble Lord that this will continue to be the situation.

I too have just returned from Northern Ireland, having made a rapid return trip since I left these shores this morning. I am aware of the feeling in the Province through person-to-person contact as well as from the press. There is deep anxiety, and for very good reason. I want to assure the noble Lord, Lord Blease, and all your Lordships that there are certainly techniques, and above all there is the will of Her Majesty's Government and of all the security forces, to defeat this campaign of terrorism. But the noble Lord will know that the Provisional IRA are dedicated, professional. ruthless and above all vicious in the forms of terrorism. Their campaign is following upon a pathetic showing in the recent elections in the Republic. The reasons that they undertake this campaign of terrorism are best known to themselves. However, I assure the noble Lord and every one of your Lordships that the will of the Government and of the security forces is there to defeat this terrorism.

Lord Chalfont

My Lords, I join in all the expressions of sympathy for the victims and the families of the victims of this form of terrorism, but does the Minister agree that expressions of outrage and revulsion are unlikely to make any impression on these people? Does he agree that the object of terrorism is to terrorise? It is to cause revulsion and fear. I ask the Minister two specific questions arising out of these latest incidents. First, are the Government content that the known and obvious targets of terrorism are given proper advice about sensible precautions to be taken in the conduct of their daily lives?

Secondly, in a context where we are now dealing with a branch of international terrorism and all that that means, is the noble Lord satisfied that in the counter-terrorist operations that are taking place in Northern Ireland—we all share a great admiration for the RUC—the armed forces are being given enough of a role to play in dealing with this problem?

4 p.m.

Lord Lyell

My Lords, of course I accept the first proposition put by the noble Lord about the objective of terrorism being to terrorise the population. But I would stress to the noble Lord, and I am sure he would accept, that although the people in Northern Ireland are anxious—and I wish to pay my tribute to the population—they are not however terrorised. They have stood up remarkably well to this. There is a feeling that they will not be beaten by this terrorism, as indeed they have not been over the past 17 or 18 years.

The noble Lord asked me two specific questions. The first was about the protection which is given to sundry persons whom he described as potential targets. The Government are content that sufficient advice is given to people who might be at risk. If any lessons may be learnt from the events which I have described this afternoon we shall take note and act very quickly, as I am sure the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the security forces will.

On the second question put to me by the noble Lord about international terrorism and the methods needed to combat it, I stress that the front line against terrorism is the Royal Ulster Constabulary. The army and the security forces act in support of the Royal Ulster Constabulary. I believe that is the position of all governments. It is a position which should be maintained and it will be maintained so far as we are concerned.

Lord Kilbracken

My Lords, I crossed the border at half-past eight this morning and I should like to begin by confirming what has been said by both my noble friends—that there is the most profound sense of shock and outrage in the Republic at what has happened. As I approached the border this morning in visibility of about 30 yards, I expected that, coming so soon after these murders, I should have some difficulty in crossing. I have to report that the only sign of security forces north of the border was a single soldier, a private who stopped me, looked briefly at my driving licence and let me through in 30 seconds. So it is the case that the border is not properly watched by the security forces in the North.

I should like to ask the Minister two questions. First, does he think it worth commenting on the outrageous suggestion of the Unionist leader, Mr. Molyneaux, that the knowledge of the judge's movements came to the IRA through a mole in the Garda Siochana? Secondly, does he have any knowledge why a man who was a known likely target for the IRA, when travelling from Britain to Northern Ireland should have chosen to travel by ferry from Liverpool to Dublin, not Dun Laoghaire, as the Secretary for Northern Ireland originally said, and then by road from Dublin to Belfast? He was thus not only exposing himself to IRA terrorists but also putting additional demands on the extremely pressed police forces in the North. Why did he have to go through another country? Why did he allow the number of his car, his position and his title to be known to a travel agent in Belfast over three months before the event?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, on the noble Lord's first point about his personal experience of crossing the border this morning, I do not want to comment any further on matters of security on the border. I think it is entirely a matter for the security forces as to how they go about their duty, how they spread their forces and what resources they use. But I beg the noble Lord not to take as evidence just what he saw. Members of another place have also taken that attitude and have found that they were entirely wrong. Certainly I believe we ought to allow the security forces who guard the border to carry out their duties as they see fit.

On the two questions which the noble Lord asked me about the statement made by a Member of another place immediately after the murder of Lord Justice Gibson, so far as we are aware there is no basis for this scurrilous statement. Indeed, it was of no help. I stress to the noble Lord and to your Lordships that further inquiries are being undertaken about the arrangements made by Lord Justice Gibson and Lady Gibson, and I think that this answer will also cover the noble Lord's second question. If we or the security forces in the Republic find any lessons from this, we shall certainly put them into practice.

Lord Moran

My Lords, having reached a point where it was suggested on the BBC at lunch-time today that a distinguished judge was irresponsible in booking a passage across the Irish Sea in his own name, is it not time that we took an entirely new look at security in Northern Ireland? Perhaps the security forces should stand less on the defensive and should take the initiative in trying to destroy and root out terrorism in the Province. To that end, can the Minister assure the House that anything the security forces need to secure that objective will be given to them, including if necessary some amendment to the legal framework?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, on the noble Lord's last point about what I think he called some amendment to the legal framework I would not give a guarantee this afternoon although we may be able to discuss this matter at a later stage. Regarding resources for the security forces, if my right honourable and honourable friends who examine security on a day-to-day basis decide that resources are needed for the security forces, those resources will be found.

I am afraid I have no knowledge of the comments which may have been made on the BBC about the travel arrangements of Lord Justice Gibson, or indeed of other prominent persons. As I have stressed before, if there are any lessons to be learnt we shall act on them.

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