§ 2.55 p.m.
§ Lord AnnanMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government what response universities have made to the Jarratt Report and 1026 how many are taking steps to implement its main recommendations concerning the executive powers of council and vice-chancellor.
§ Baroness HooperMy Lords, all universities have responded to the University Grants Committee's request for detailed information about the steps they are taking to implement the recommendations of the Jarratt Report. The UGC will submit a report and commentary to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State by July this year.
§ Lord AnnanMy Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that Answer, but does she agree that, if the White Paper recommendations are to be implemented and vice-chancellors are to be required to negotiate with the University Grants Committee for funding and sign a contract, it would be singularly unfortunate if after the contract has been negotiated it could be overturned by the recommendations of senate or of council as advised by senate? Is there not a case for the Privy Council to look into the necessity for some changes of statutes in universities?
§ Baroness HooperMy Lords, almost all universities say that they are implementing the recommendations of the Jarratt Report and profess themselves to be in favour in principle. But we recognise that there are different structures in different universities and sometimes procedures do not quite fit. However, as I said, the University Grants Committee is still analysing the universities' responses in order to determine what practical action has been taken. We shall take note of the noble Lord's remarks in that context.
§ Lord Taylor of BlackburnMy Lords, is the Minister aware that several universities have already made application to the Privy Council for changes in their statutes to bring them into line with modern thinking?
§ Baroness HooperYes, my Lords; but in this case I think we must await the final analysis in July before further action is taken.
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, I appreciate the noble Baroness's difficulty in anticipating the decisions of the University Grants Committee so far as the Jarratt recommendations affect it, but those recommendations also affect the Government. May I ask her what action the Government are going to take to implement the recommendations so as to restore a longer-term horizon for the universities in view of the disincentives to strategic planning and so that they should fund the realistic cost of future staffing reductions agreed between the universities and the UGC?
§ Baroness HooperMy Lords, with regard to the longer funding horizon proposed by the Jarratt Report, the White Paper on higher education rejects the idea of government funding for the new funding council being fixed for a series of three-year periods. The Government believe that the rolling triennium effectively offered by the public expenditure survey is a better means of indicating future funding levels. As for the funding arrangements between the proposed 1027 UFC and the Universities, the Government will encourage the council to provide medium and long-term planning parameters on a regular basis. The additional £95 million for the universities announced last December was intended to help them to improve their quality and efficiency and to promote change.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, would the Government or the department concerned allow some tolerance in this matter, given the fact that universities have been literally bombarded with reports, White Papers, exhortations and letters from the UGC over the last 12 months or so? Is the noble Baroness aware that universities and their administrative departments are really stretched to the utmost? If I may declare an interest as pro-Chancellor of the University of Wales, the registry of the University of Wales with seven colleges has been stretched to the utmost. Will she bear that in mind and convey it to her right honourable friend?
§ Baroness HooperMy Lords, we recognise that this is a period of change. Nevertheless, it is important that such changes as have been agreed should be seen to be implemented as rapidly as possible.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, I fully agree and support that. But what I want the noble Baroness to take aboard and convey to her right honourable friend is the large volume of additional administrative work which has been imposed on the universities.
§ Baroness HooperMy Lords, I will most certainly pass on the noble Lord's comments to my right honourable friend.
§ Lord AnnanMy Lords, while recognising that no system of management is foolproof and that good management depends on the individuals who are at the top of an institution, would the noble Baroness agree that workers' control is a form of management which does not have the support of the Labour Party, the Liberal Party, the Social Democratic Party or the Communist Party and is supported only by the Workers Revolutionary Party? Does she agree that there is therefore a case for looking into the governance of those universities in which the management is entirely composed of those who are working in the universities?
§ Baroness HooperMy Lords, we recognise that one of the messages of the Jarratt Report is that leadership within universities may have swung too far in favour of senates and away from councils, and the procedures which have been followed through are helping to counteract that.