Shipping Registry: Norwegian Proposal (Hansard, 1 April 1987)

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)
My Lords, we are not making any such arrangements. I did, however, informally discuss this proposal when I met the Norwegian Minister of Trade and Shipping in Oslo last November. The main purpose of the second Norwegian registry would be to stem the loss of ships from the Norwegian flag.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that reply. Do the Government intend to inquire in friendly discussions into the effects of this project on the rules and standards at present required by Norway for shipping registered in Oslo considering that Norway has a problem of its ships leaving for flags of convenience?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, it is essentially an internal Norwegian matter but our officials meet regularly in multilateral fora which discuss such matters. Certainly we shall be discussing that kind of matter with the Norwegians.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, does the Minister appreciate that his reply is extremely disconcerting? The reports that have been published indicate that it is not just a problem for Norwegian shipping; the proposal will attract shipping throughout the world. The hope is to attract associated shipping services away from London to Oslo. That could have a very severe effect upon our associated services. Surely this is a case not merely for discussion with the Norwegian Government but also with the Council of Transport Ministers all of whose countries will be affected. This is a further terrible advance for flags of convenience with lower costs and lower wages for crews.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, the final proposals have not yet been published. We do not therefore know exactly what form they will take. As for the Council of Transport Ministers, I am sure that the proposal will be a matter of discussion. Norway, not being within the Common Market, is not a party to that. However, the Norwegians obviously feel that they have a reason to retain their shipping under their own flag, and these proposals are aimed at that.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, can we have an assurance that the Government are concerned that there will be an international register and that they will do all they can to ensure that nations are properly represented by their own flags and not by flags of convenience?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, we already have a fairly similar kind of arrangement in the Isle of Man and dependent territories registers which keep ships under the British flag. However, as I say, this is a matter for the Norwegians. There is a limit to the amount that we can interfere with what they wish to do.

§ Lord Greenway
My Lords, bearing in mind what the noble Lord has just said, will he confirm that what the Norwegians are proposing is precisely what is available to British merchant fleets under the registers of the Isle of Man, Gibraltar and, I believe, the Cayman Islands?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I cannot confirm that it is precisely the same because we do not yet know the final details of what the Norwegians propose. However, I have said that it is very similar to the kind of arrangement we can offer.

§ Lord Geddes
My Lords, can my noble friend advise the House whether his officials are in communication with the General Council of British Shipping on this subject? If so, what is the reaction from that body?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I am sure that my officials are constantly in touch with the General Council of British Shipping. However, I have not heard its reaction to the proposal by the Norwegians.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, has the Minister seen the report in the Daily Telegraph of the 9th March this year which gives a far more disconcerting account of what the Norwegian Government are planning than the Minister has given? If he has not read the report, will he please do so and consult not only with the General Council of British Shipping but also with the International Maritime Organisation? The effect on British shipping is very severe. If action by the Norwegian Government to deal with their own problem led to the British Government taking the same course, it would, I am certain, be disastrous for the world.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I must admit that I have not seen the report of 9th March. I shall of course look at it now that the noble Lord has proposed it to me. I have said that we can offer a similar kind of arrangement through the Isle of Man and dependent territories registers.

§ Lord Harmar-Nicholls
My Lords, is it suggested that a report in a newspaper is more authoritative than a statement from the Dispatch Box in Parliament?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I do not know the answer until I have read the report in the newspapers. However, as I have said, we have still not seen the final proposals of the Norwegians. As I have also said, it is very much an internal matter for them. We cannot tell them that they cannot do this.

§ Lord Greenway
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the intention of the Norwegian register at present is to replace many of its experienced Norwegian crew with, I believe, Filippinos? Is there not a safety angle to be considered in this case?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, the present requirement of Norway's register is that two-thirds of the crew should be Norwegian. One of the proposals is that the vessels could have all-foreign crews. It would of course be up to the shipping lines to satisfy themselves that they could still operate safely with that change. I do not think the proposal applies to the officers. I think that they will still remain Norwegian.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the British arrangements in the Isle of Man allow a relaxation of standards?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I do not think that impression could be taken from anything I said this afternoon. It certainly is not the case.