Nuclear Power Stations: Jobs (Hansard, 30 October 1986)

§ Lord Rodney
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, well over 100,000 jobs depend directly or indirectly on the nuclear industry. In addition, nuclear power makes an important contribution to keeping electricity prices down, and hence to the competitiveness of UK industry. There are some 800,000 jobs alone in industries which use the largest amounts of electricity. Many of these could be put at risk in these highly competitive sectors.

§ Lord Rodney
My Lords, I should like to thank my noble friend for that Answer. If the nuclear power stations were phased out as is recommended, or proposed, by Her Majesty's Opposition, can he say what is the availability of alternative jobs in the vicinity of those nuclear power stations?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, most of our nuclear industry is situated in areas of high unemployment and I should have thought that closing down an entire industry is a strange way of solving our unemployment problem.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is it not extraordinary that a Question about jobs comes from a member of a party which has caused unemployment to rise by 2¼ million since 1979? Also, is the noble Viscount aware that under a Labour Government additional new jobs will be created and that we shall reduce unemployment by 1 million in two years? Is the noble Viscount further aware that Labour Party policy on nuclear power reflects a growing public concern about the safety of nuclear energy following the Chernobyl accident? Is not our cautious approach far better than the Government's gadarene gallop to introducing into this country the pressurised water reactor, which has never been built here, has never operated here and is inherently less safe than the AGR?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I find it extremely strange that a party which is promising, if elected, to reduce the unemployment figures by 1 million, should at the same time adopt a policy which could lead to an increase in the figures by the same number. With regard to safety, the nuclear industry is subject to the rigorous systems of safety assurance. Nuclear power stations are subject to the controls of the statutory independent watchdog—the Nuclear Installations Inspectorate—at all stages of their life, from initial design through construction and operation to maintenance and inspection, and we have complete faith in their future.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that even if we were to phase out nuclear power stations in this country we would still need to protect our people from fall-out caused by nuclear accidents on the Continent? Is he further aware that nuclear power stations have the advantage that they do not cause acid rain which is created by fossil fuels?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend. I agree with everything he said.

Lord Paget of Northampton
My Lords, will the noble Viscount agree that the question as to whether 793 phasing out affects in a positive or a negative way the level of unemployment depends entirely upon the employment required by the substitute which is being phased in; and that an answer saying that phasing out, without referring to the demands of phasing in, means so many unemployed, is simply dishonest?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, perhaps the noble Lord will ask his colleagues what is being phased in.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, I shall tell the noble Viscount in a moment.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there are now some 450 nuclear power stations in the world? Is it not a fact that the casualties arising from these are fewer than one-hundredth of the tragic casualties that arise from people who continue to mine coal? Will my noble friend bear in mind that if our own nuclear power stations are progressively closed down we will be able to rely on the French supply by the cable, across the Channel where the French are expanding their nuclear power stations and producing electricity very much more cheaply as a result?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, with regards to the last part of my noble friend's question, we shall be able to continue to rely on power coming from France if this Government are re-elected, but not if the Opposition are elected.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that the noble Lord, Lord Paget, makes a valid point when he says that if—and I use the word "it deliberately—a policy of phasing out nuclear energy is carried out, it follows as sure as night follows day that a substitute has to be brought in? That substitute may be more labour-intensive than the nuclear energy industry. Are we not listening to only one side of the equation, and is that fair at this stage?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I am afraid that at the moment there is only one side of the equation.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the proportion of electricity generated from nuclear power stations is considerably more at present in Scotland than in England and Wales, and that the risk of unemployment would accordingly cause great anxiety in Scotland?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I am indeed aware of that.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, will the noble Viscount agree, as I am sure he will, that one of the strongest arguments in favour of the advocates of nuclear energy is that it is not labour-intensive? Is not the truth of the matter, particularly in relation to coal that the number of people employed is many times greater than the number employed in the nuclear industry? Therefore, there is not the slightest substance in the argument put forward by the noble Viscount. Does he not agree that there may be other reasons for being for or against nuclear power, but that the labour argument does not stand up?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, as usual, I have to say that I am sure the noble Lord will not expect me to agree with him.

§ Viscount Hanworth
My Lords, does the noble Viscount agree that if we go to coal, which is probably the only major alternative to nuclear power, the problem is not only one of acid rain but of the greenhouse effect? Is he aware that all scientific evidence today indicates that this could be absolutely disastrous to our civilisation? Is it not folly to give up nuclear power and merely have to go into another area where the risks are far greater for future generations?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I entirely agree. We believe that nuclear power has a vital role in meeting the world's energy demands over the coming decades as fossil fuel reserves are run down.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, the noble Viscount asked a question and I shall do my best to answer it. Is the noble Viscount aware that the United States has not built a nuclear power station for the past ten years? Is he also aware that the Labour Party policy would involve building new coal-fired stations, it would involve combined heat and power, it would involve better insulation of homes, it would involve more research on renewable sources of energy, and that indeed all those together would create far more than the 100,000 jobs which he mentioned in his opening Answer?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I do not propose to debate that point at the moment. All I can say is that I am speaking for the Government, not for the United States or the Opposition.