HL Deb 28 October 1986 vol 481 cc606-8

2.52 p.m.

Lord Morris

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they propose to promote a declaration of rights for Northern Ireland.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Northern Ireland Office (Lord Lyell)

My Lords, we are considering, together with the Irish Government, proposals which will underline the commitment of both governments to the effective protection of human rights.

Lord Morris

My Lords, I am most grateful for that Answer. Will the same initiative be taken so far as the United Kingdom as a whole is concerned?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, the noble Lord will be aware that there was a lengthy debate on this subject at the end of last year, initiated by my noble friend Lord Broxbourne. There are major technical difficulties in having an effective Bill of Rights in only one part of the United Kingdom; and of course this would also oblige the judiciary to make what we should call political judgments. That was the main reason why my right honourable and noble colleagues decided recently against a Bill of Rights for the United Kingdom as a whole.

Baroness Seear

My Lords, can the noble Lord explain why a Bill of Rights would be a good thing for Irishmen and not for the rest of the United Kingdom?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, I thought I had indicated that we considered that we should treat this matter on a United Kingdom basis.

Lord Prys-Davies

My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord the Minister can elaborate a little on his reply. On 6th June the Secretary of State said that he would "listen carefully"—those were his words—to any proposal put forward by the Irish Government relating to the advantages of a Bill of Rights. But in the communique issued on 6th October, after the last meeting of the Intergovernmental Conference, it was recorded that the Government saw some difficulties with the proposal.

The communiqué went on to say that they were prepared to consider alternative initiatives. So this is my question: are we therefore not right in concluding that since last June the Government's view has been hardening against a Bill of Rights for Northern Ireland?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, I am glad that the noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies, gave us the whole quote from the communiqué after the Intergovernmental Conference meeting on 6th October. No, the Government's view is not hardening, but, as the noble Lord will know, and as I hope I have indicated already, there are many aspects of this particular matter to be considered. As the noble Lord will be aware, many of them were considered in your Lordships' House during the debate last December.

Lord Prys-Davies

My Lords, may I put a second question to the Minister? The Standing Advisory Commission on Human Rights in Northern Ireland, with the financial support of the Government and other support, is undertaking a major review of human rights in Northern Ireland and of the laws and institutions protecting the citizen against discrimination. That is a major review. Will the Minister confirm to the House that the Government will take no decision concerning human rights in Northern Ireland which would require legislation until the report of the Standing Advisory Commission on Human Rights has been presented to the Government in 12 months' time?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, I could not give that guarantee, but I should say that the Standing Advisory Commission on Human Rights began this extensive review in 1985, as no doubt the noble Lord will be aware. I think also he may take as an indication of our support the fact that the Government have given £150,000 of additional funding as well as additional staff. So the Government do take this work very seriously. However, I could not give a guarantee, particularly on the time-scale, such as the noble Lord has sought.

Lord Murray of Epping Forest

My Lords, in examining the feasibility of a Bill of Rights in Northern Ireland, will the noble Lord take proper account of the need to consider the right to work as an essential right of the people of Northern Ireland? In that situation, does he join in commending the Northern Ireland Committee of the ICTU on its recent initiative in the calling of a conference to insist that the men of terror shall not be allowed to intimidate ordinary men and women from going about their normal work in Northern Ireland?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has indicated our strong support, and I hope that might help the noble Lord. I am sure your Lordships, as well as the noble Lord, will be happy to know that the Government support equal opportunities in Northern Ireland, and a body of legislation exists to assist this particular aspect. A consultative paper called Equality of Opportunity in Employment in Northern Ireland was published on 16th September last, and we would welcome any comments on this document by 31st March 1987.

Lord Monson

My Lords, would the noble Lord the Minister agree that the fact that the minority population in the south of Ireland has sharply decreased in both absolute and proportionate terms over the past 65 years, whereas the minority population in the North has increased over the same period, both proportionately and absolutely, demonstrates that a Bill of Rights is needed every bit as much in the Republic as it is in the North of Ireland?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, the noble Lord's question is very interesting, but I believe that it is a little wide of the Question on the Order Paper.

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