County Hall Buildings, Lambeth: Disposal (Hansard, 23 October 1986)

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Skelmersdale)
My Lords, following the abolition of the GLC, the County Hall buildings are vested in the London Residuary Body. The LRB is actively seeking to dispose of the buildings. It has appointed property consultants who are undertaking an extensive marketing exercise. The LRB has also given those bodies still in occupation notice to quit.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, in view of the importance of the disposal of these buildings in the interests of the London ratepayers because of their very manifest value, can my noble friend say whether Lambeth Council is being helpful over the planning aspects and whether ILEA is being helpful over expediting its much-wanted departure?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I understand that applications will be made to the London Borough of Lambeth in respect of all the buildings to establish office use and in respect of the main building for a change to hotel, residential and office uses, together with ancillary and conference facilities. On my noble friend's point about ILEA, not being a member of ILEA I find it rather difficult to speak for it. However, I can tell the House that the London Residuary Body will be pleased to enter into negotiations with ILEA on its future housing, and I can confirm that its notice to quit expires on 31st March 1988.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, will the noble Lord examine the possibility that these buildings could be 434 used to co-ordinate the activities, politically, socially and in many other ways, of one of the greatest cities in the world, so that we create a sort of LCC, which would serve Londoners much better than the situation into which we have drifted?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I thought that we debated that very subject month after month in your Lordships' House last year. No, I do not think that that would be a good idea. The point is that the building's future is a matter for the London Residuary Body, which of course owns it as a result of an Act of Parliament. It is up to the LRB to decide how and in what way to investigate its future use.

§ Lord Maude of Stratford-upon-Avon
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that many people think that this building, which is one of the best examples of modern architecture in London, should not become the site of a government department or quango, and that it is ideally suited to be a very prestigious hotel? Is my noble friend further aware that, as the building has access by water and is exactly opposite the Houses of Parliament, it could be a very profitable undertaking as an international tourist hotel?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I think that my safest answer to my noble friend is to say that that is a point of view with which I do not disagree.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, in view of the fact that one of the major parties contesting the next general election has said that it will re-acquire the building for public use in the event of its coming to government, would not anyone be extremely ill-advised to put in a bid for this building at the present time?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, that is very hypothetical indeed, but I did tell the House that there will not be vacant possession until at least March 1988.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, bearing in mind the possibility of the building becoming a prestigious hotel, will the Government bring to the attention of the London Residuary Body the fact that, although maný German and American tourists are extremely large, few of them are actually 12 or 16 feet tall, which they would have to be to make good use of the rooms in County Hall as bedrooms or living-rooms? Could it be brought home to the LRB, perhaps by remarks made in this House, that the wholesale conversion of that gigantic building would be a mistake in view of the possibility of future governments of any colour having other ideas?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, the major part of County Hall—that is to say, the front and the main building—is a listed building, so that any change or any alteration to the inside of the building would need listed building consent, again from Lambeth Council.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, I think that the noble Lord said that in his view the building would be very suitable for an hotel. Do we understand that that is the 435 Government's view? In saying that is the noble Lord speaking for the Government?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I think that the noble Baroness somewhat misinterpreted what I said.

Noble Lords
No!

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, does the Minister recollect that the words he used—and I am paraphrasing perfectly fairly—were that he would not disagree that the building was very suitable for use as an hotel or something of that kind? Does he realise that his department may be acting in a quasi-judicial capacity in the event of an appeal on planning? Does the noble Lord therefore realise what he has said and the seriousness of it from that point of view?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, it was not intended to be a funny remark when I said to my noble friend Lord Maude that I did not disagree. However, equally, as a distinguished lawyer, the noble Lord, Lord Mishcon, will know that that cannot under any circumstances be construed as saying that I agree.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, surely nothing could be more appropriately judicial and balanced than the double negative of saying that one does not disagree.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, whatever the implications of what the noble Lord has just said, perhaps he would care to detach himself from the Government and say that it was a personal remark to make it plain that that was not the view of his right honourable friend, who has clear quasi-judicial functions in relation to planning in this matter? I would strongly advise the noble Lord to think again about it.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I think that I should be unwise to comment further on this matter.