§ Lord Brougham and VauxMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government what information they have of the savings made by local authorities on subsidising bus services under provisions of the Transport Act 1985.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)My Lords, competitive tendering for local authority bus subsidy contracts is not yet complete. However, the results so far are encouraging, and it seems clear that, overall, very substantial financial savings will be made, while service levels will be broadly maintained.
§ Lord Brougham and VauxMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for his very encouraging reply. May I ask him whether it is true that the Lancashire County Council spent about £135,000 on a propaganda campaign opposing the Transport Bill? Also, can my noble friend tell us how much they have saved in subsidies while maintaining the same level of service?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraYes, my Lords; I understand that the county council spent a considerable amount of money on publicity. I can tell my noble friend that they have saved in the region of £5 million in subsidy.
§ Lord Taylor of BlackburnMy Lords, is the Minister aware that the decision to spend that amount of money was an all-party decision, that there is a balance of power on Lancashire County Council, and that it is not a Labour-controlled county council? May I ask the Minister whether he is aware that we are waiting to see the full implications of the Act?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I am sure that the full implications of the Act, so far as concerns Lancashire, are that they have completed their tendering process and it has resulted in this very large saving. As to the composition of the council, that does not really relate to this Question.
§ Lord UnderhillMy Lords, does the noble Lord appreciate that I welcome his statement right at the outset that it is rather too early to draw conclusions, particularly as after the deregulation date of 26th October there will be a period of three months when no further registrations will be permitted? Is he aware 674 that there were two departmental representatives present at a conference on Whither Public Transport? held in Manchester, when many operators and members of transport authorities expressed apprehensions about the future? If the noble Lord has not had a report from them will he arrange to get one? Does he also appreciate that the monitoring to be undertaken by the Transport and Road Research Laboratory and the AMA, jointly with the PTE group, will be vital for the future before we really know what has happened under the Transport Act?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I was not aware of that conference which took place. I shall endeavour to get a report from those officials at the department who apparently attended it. However, as I said in my original Answer, so far the results are extremely encouraging.
§ Lord GisboroughMy Lords, can my noble friend say how things are going in the rural areas with regard to the ideas of the new rural transport system? In particular, to what extent is the £1 million Government grant being taken up satisfactorily?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I am afraid that I do not have the answer to my noble friend's question on the £1 million grant. I shall endeavour to find out about that and let him know. In general terms, in rural areas it is so far going very well.
§ Lord TordoffMy Lords, is the Minister aware that we are astonished to see so many honorary Lancastrians in the House today? Perhaps he will ask his noble friend the Leader of the House whether we can have some greenfly spray down this end of the Chamber. More pertinent to the Question, has the Minister any idea how many new operators have come in in various areas of the country? Have there been many or just a few?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I do not have a figure for the total number of new operators who have come in. It may be that after 26th October we shall have a full picture of what has happened.
§ Lord Carmichael of KelvingroveMy Lords, while it is too early to make final decisions about savings, does the Minister accept, following the first Question yesterday, that there is a great deal of worry in some of the major cities? I hope that the ministry will allow for traffic in accident losses when they are totalling up any gains that are made, particularly in the big cities, from the new Transport Act.
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I am not quite sure whether I follow the question, but I answered yesterday about the possibility of traffic regulation orders being brought into effect if the local authorities wish to have them.