HL Deb 26 November 1986 vol 482 cc538-40

2.40 p.m.

Lord Allen of Abbeydale

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have any plans for an amnesty for firearms and ammunition.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, we are considering the matter closely in conjunction with the Association of Chief Police Officers.

Lord Allen of Abbeydale

My Lords, in thanking the noble Earl for that Answer I am tempted to congratulate the Government on the alacrity with which they have followed up the idea set out in this Question, but I suppose that it is conceivable that by coincidence they were already thinking about the possibility. Even if an amnesty were not to achieve the results of the last one held 18 years ago, when some 25,000 guns were handed in, is it not worthwhile doing anything which might result in some reduction of the number of guns lying around waiting to be burgled and added to a flourishing black market?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, it is for that reason, among others, that we are urgently considering the matter. But I am sure that the noble Lord will need no reminding from me that it is not only guns with which we are concerned, but ammunition. In 1968, in addition to the 25,000 or so firearms that the noble Lord mentioned, there were something like 795,162 rounds of ammunition surrendered.

Lord Mishcon

My Lords, while congratulating the Minister on the precise figures that he has given, including the one round of ammunition at the end—or the two rounds of ammunition at the end—may I ask him what are the main disadvantages that the Government see in granting this amnesty?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, one of the difficulties that we are looking at is that it has been the usual practice in the past to couple an amnesty with legislation, which was the case in 1961, 1965, and 1968.

Lord Harris of Greenwich

My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl when he expects to announce a decision on this matter? May I also ask him whether he recalls the statement made by his predecessor, that the Government were looking urgently into the question of tightening up the provisions relating to the custody of firearms in people's houses, and in creating a requirement that people who have a licence should look after their shotguns? May I also ask why, after many months of being told by Ministers that they are looking at this matter urgently, there has still been no action?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, with regard to shotguns, the police and shotgun users agree that the storage of these weapons is important in keeping them out of the hands of criminals. We are in touch with the British Shooting Sports Council about the introduction of a statutory safe-keeping requirement, but no decision has yet been reached.

Lord Harmar-Nicholls

My Lords, as far as revolvers are concerned, is not the main need to know where they are and who has them? At the moment the cost of a firearms certificate for a revolver kept for sentimental or other reasons has been set very high at £33 or more. Does it not discourage people who would otherwise apply for a licence, so that the officials would know where they are, to keep the certificate at that figure? Ought it not to be set at a reasonable level, which would encourage people to disclose their firearms and their ammunition?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, it can be argued whether or not the fee for the firearms certificate for Section 1 firearms is reasonable, and we believe that the present figure is.

Lord Harris of Greenwich

My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl a final question on this point? Is he aware that for many months the Home Office has been having discussions with shooting interests? Is he further aware that, despite those discussions, and despite the fact that they are now involved in a national crime prevention campaign, the Government have taken no action at all? What will eventually impel the Government to take action on this matter, at a time when the criminal statistics for 1985 demonstrate a substantial increase in the number of cases where shotguns have been used in serious criminal offences?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, the noble Lord will, from his wide experience, know better than I the need to consult in these mtters. But notwithstanding the large increase which occurred last year, the offences recorded by the police in which firearms were reported to have been used still number less than 0.3 per cent. of the total number of all reckonable offences. That is still too high a percentage, and it is that we want to reduce.

Lord Swansea

My Lords, if Her Majesty's Government decide to introduce an amnesty will they, at the same time, advise the public that, as an alternative to surrendering such unregistered firearms to the police, they may also legally dispose of such items for their current value to a registered dealer?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I take careful note of my noble friend's question and I shall pass it on to my right honourable friend the Home Secretary.