§ 2.49 p.m.
§ Lord RodneyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will comment on information from Soviet sources that the Chernobyl disaster was caused by human error rather than a technical failure.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, the presentation given to the International Atomic Energy Agency by Soviet experts on the causes and consequences of the Chernobyl accident showed that the accident occurred because of a combination of design weaknesses in the reactor system and deliberate failures by staff to observe prescribed safety procedures in both the authorisation and the carrying out of a test on the turbine generators.
§ Lord RodneyMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Did he see a recent article in The Times which gave the impression that most of the Magnox 542 power stations were suffering from corrosion and were therefore unsafe? If he did so, would he care to comment on it?
§ Viscount DavidsonYes, my Lords, I saw the article, which was factually inaccurate. The real situation is very far from the alarming picture portrayed. The corrosion problem affected only two standpipes out of 450 at Hinkley Point and the other seven Magnox stations were unaffected. This problem has been well documented in public and does not pose a safety threat. The Nuclear Installations Inspectorate agreed in April to the continued operation of the station.
§ Lord RentonMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that, but for a climatic piece of good fortune, we might have had a higher degree of radiation from Chernobyl over this country than we had, and that the same conditions may arise again, although we hope that they will not? Has the attention of local authorities been drawn to the need for much greater protection of the people against the possibility of radiation fall-out?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, the answer to both questions put by my noble friend is yes.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that human error occurs all over the world and in all types of technology and that regard to it cannot be excluded from nuclear energy? That is one reason why nuclear energy is so much more dangerous and so much more alarming than other forms of energy and should be avoided as much as possible.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, the precautions taken in the design and construction of nuclear installations and the very high safety standards applied in operating them make accidents that could affect the public very likely indeed—
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I am sorry. I thought that I had said "unlikely". Perhaps I may now say "unlikely", and underline it. Even the one-in-a-million accident for which emergency plans are prepared would be unlikely to have a significant effect beyond two or three miles from the site. The Chernobyl disaster is not a measure of what an accident at a British nuclear installation would be and does not invalidate the safety systems in use in this country and elsewhere. Even the Russians have said that Chernobyl could not happen outside Russia.
§ Lord Taylor of GryfeMy Lords, did I understand the Minister to say that the International Atomic Energy Authority had established that there were design weaknesses in the construction of the Chernobyl plant? Is he aware that this has since been confirmed by British nuclear scientists who have visited the Soviet Union on the matter? Can he tell the House what authority the International Atomic Energy Authority will have to impose proper safety regulations to prevent a recurrence of this disaster?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, the International Atomic Energy Agency has the authority to tell all the countries that have put their signature to the energy agency to adopt the high standards of safety.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, have the Soviet Government provided any information about adaptations which would correct the faults in design that helped to cause the Chernobyl disaster in those reactors of the same type which are still in operation?
§ Viscount DavidsonYes, my Lords. The Russians are putting design alterations into effect on all their other reactors of the Chernobyl type.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, in the light of the answers that the noble Viscount has given so far, does he rule out the possibility of a similar accident occurring in any British nuclear power station, present or future, by reason of human error?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, it would be foolish of me to rule out anything at all; but so far as I know I do rule it out.
§ Lord Gray of ContinMy Lords, does my noble friend agree with me that the present record of the nuclear energy industry in this country is second to none in industrial control of accidents? Does he further agree that if the Chernobyl and similar reactors had, before they were allowed to be constructed to undergo the tests which are imposed on the nuclear industry in this country, there may never have been a Chernobyl accident?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend. The United Kingdom has a very rigorous system of nuclear safety licensing. A continuous process of review and reassessment of nuclear reactors is part of the very high standards of safety applied in this country. The system design of UK reactors is tolerant to operator action and provides for the reactor to shut down under automatic control in the event of operator error.
§ Lord Mackie of BenshieMy Lords, is the Minister aware that, although the regulations in this country make for a greater degree of safety than elsewhere, an accident anywhere can affect this country, and has done? Does he agree therefore that the international agency should have powers of inspection and of specification?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, we have a very good inspectorate here, the Nuclear Installations Inspectorate. Nothing can be done without its approval.
The Earl of HalsburyMy Lords, will the noble Viscount confirm that volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, typhoons, hurricanes and the arrival on this planet of outsize meteorites are not due to human error; that life on this planet is not altogether secure; and that we should stand up to life and its hazards like men and not frightened children?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Earl.