HL Deb 05 November 1986 vol 481 cc1101-5

2.44 p.m.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are yet in a position to publish the details, including the commencement, of the measures to be taken to reduce the incidence of acid rain, as announced by the Prime Minister during her recent visit to Norway.

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, the Government have authorised the Central Electricity Generating Board to install flue gas desulphurisation equipment to 6,000 megawatts of existing generating capacity, equivalent to three 2,000 megawatt power stations. The programme is to commence with the recently completed extension to the Drax station and will be phased over the period 1988 to 1997.

This authorisation is subject to the necessary detailed engineering studies, appropriate financial arrangements and consultations with planning authorities. No final decision will be taken to commence installation of the equipment until next spring's report from the Royal Society and the Scandinavian Academies of Science on surface water acidification has been received and studied.

The Government have also decided to require any future coal-fired power stations to be fitted with flue gas desulphurisation to the requirements of the national industrial air pollution inspectorates.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to the Minister for that detailed and technical reply. I am also grateful because it indicates that the Government are taking definitive action on this problem. Of course, I do not accept that coal-fired power stations are the sole villains of the piece on this matter of acid rain.

Is there any particular system that the Government or the CEGB prefer for power stations as there are, I understand, there or four systems at present available? Can the Minister tell the House what the programme will mean, when it is fully under way, in terms of jobs per thousands of pounds spent, bearing in mind the present unemployment situation?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, the type of flue gas desulphurisation process to be employed will be a decision for the CEGB in the light of its detailed engineering studies, consultations with local planning authorities, and so on. However, there is another new technology that will help to reduce emissions, which is called pressurised fluidised bed combustion. There is a £28 million project at Grimethorpe to develop this promising technology, co-funded by the CEGB and British Coal.

As regards employment, all I can say at present is that United Kingdom industry will benefit from the orders for construction of plant and equipment that will be necessary for the FGD programme. Indeed, manufacturers have been evaluating flue gas desulphurisation systems in conjuction with the CEGB for some time now, so that they can both respond promptly to any requirement to fit flue gas desulphurisation.

Lord Nugent of Guildford

My Lords, my noble friend has not mentioned emissions from motor cars. Should not my noble friend be a little less modest and announce the Government's programme for removing lead from petrol, so that in the course of a few years one of the main causes of acid rain will be removed? Is not my noble friend being too modest?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I am delighted to be accused of being too modest. However, this is a slightly different question. If my noble friend would like to table a Question I should be very happy to answer it.

Lord Nugent of Guildford

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that he is completely wrong? Emissions from motor cars using petrol with a lead content are a major cause of acid rain. Therefore, is not my noble friend wrong in not acknowledging that it is a major cause and that he has a very good programme for dealing with it?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I certainly agree with my noble friend.

The Earl of Halsbury

My Lords, can the Minister tell the House whether Her Majesty's Government are in receipt of any responsible scientific advice explaining why this kerfuffle over acid rain is taking place when we are burning only half the coal that we burnt pre-war?

Viscount Davidson

My, Lords, the advice which the Government are receiving is from the Royal Society and the Scandinavian Academies of Science report on surface water acidification, which will be received in the spring.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, may I put a further question to the noble Viscount, because his earlier reply was not quite clear? Do the Government now accept that it is the emission of sulphur dioxide and nitrous oxides from British power stations that is causing deforestation and barren lakes in Scandinavia? I should very much like to know that.

Can the noble Viscount also tell the House how many more power stations, apart from the 6,000 megawatt power stations he mentioned, would need to be retrofitted so that the United Kingdom complies with the 60 per cent. reduction by 1995 which is implicit in the large plants directive of the EC?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I think it goes without saying that the United Kingdom is determined to reduce the emission of sulphur. In fact the United Kingdom's record in reducing sulphur emission to date is a good one. We have already achieved more than a 40 per cent. reduction since the peak year of 1970. We are confident that in the longer term the problem will be resolved through the introduction of new combustion and emission control technologies., and anything that we can do to speed up that process, the better.

The Earl of Lauderdale

My Lords, can my noble friend say what will be the on-cost to energy prices as a result of these extra fitments? Also, are we to understand that the Government are now satisfied as to the origin of acid precipitation which may fall on one loch and not on another three miles away?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, the cost will ultimately fall to the electricity consumer, although this may be partially offset by the sale of products of the flue gas desulphurisation process. The effect on electricity prices cannot yet be accurately assessed. As regards the second question of my noble friend, I am afraid that I am not technically qualified to answer that.

Baroness David

My Lords, can the noble Viscount tell us whether there has been any discussion with the Irish? I understand that the pollution in the West of Wales and West Scotland is said to be because of emissions from Irish power stations.

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I cannot answer that question but I shall write to the noble Baroness.

Lord Paget of Northampton

My Lords, is the real solution that we should transfer to some nice, safe source of power, such as nuclear power stations?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I thought we were doing that.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, I am sorry to come back, but the noble Viscount did not answer my first question. Have we now accepted that it is emissions from British power stations which are causing deforestation and barren lakes in Scandinavia? Have we now accepted that argument, or is there further research to he done?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I thought that it was the noble Lord's second question that I had not answered. In reply to the noble Lord's first question, I thought I said that we accept that there is a contribution towards the problems in Scandinavia from our emissions here.

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the policy which was recently adumbrated by Her Majesty's Opposition, to do away with nuclear power stations and revert to coal-fired stations, will in fact add to an already bad situation?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I do not particularly want to become embroiled at this moment in party political discussion on this subject.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, I am grateful for the details that the noble Viscount gave regarding progress since 1970, but will he please understand that all of those who are interested in this problem and the discussions which are taking place with a variety of people across the board hope that once a decision has been reached it will be implemented as speedily as possible? Obviously, even a small emission will still be a contribution to poisoning the atmosphere.

Viscount Davidson

Yes, my Lords, I can certainly confirm that.

Lord Mellish

My Lords, is it not a fact that most of the sulphur which creates acid rain comes from Russia? Would it not be a good idea to ask some of our Left-Wing friends who reside in this country to ask their colleagues in Russia to pack it up?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I have pleasure in passing on that message.