Metropolitan Police: Establishment (Hansard, 22 May 1986)

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, as my right honourable friend has announced, the force is to receive an increase in its establishment of up to 1,200 over the next four years, on top of the increase of 50 for drugs work agreed in principle last October. Increases of up to 600 in the civil staff ceiling should release at least 400 officers for operational duty; 200 more will be released by the commissioner's reorganisation. Altogether, therefore, he can expect increases of up to 1,850 in his operational strength.
This follows a review to establish the proven need for additional manpower, and the commissioner's own assessment was examined on that basis.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, in thanking the noble Lord the Minister for that reply, and indeed for his Answer to a Written Question by his noble friend Lord Gainford, which by coincidence appears in today's Official Report, may I tell him that the quite frequent use of the word "civilianisation" in that Written Answer constitutes to lovers of the English language an arrestable offence?
Does the noble Lord the Minister recollect the resounding promise made by his right honourable friend the Prime Minister at the last Conservative Party Conference that what the police needed they were going to get? Bearing in mind that the Metropolitan Police Commissioner has said that he needs 3,000 recruits adequately to police the metropolis, as I said in my original Question, will he indicate to the House what the position is? Is the commissioner wholly irresponsible in asking for that immediately and only getting about 10 per cent. of his demand, or is his right honourable friend the Prime Minister a breaker of promises?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister is certainly not a breaker of promises. What my right honourable friend the Prime Minister promised was that the police would get extra 393 manpower if it were needed; and after that it was made perfectly plain that the extent of the need was to be established.
Obviously, one cannot go into an open commitment about this kind of thing. It was important to establish precisely what the need was to which my right honourable friend had referred. That has been done by the reviews of police manpower. The Prime Minister did not make any specific promises about numbers. The reviews have been conducted.

Lord Inglewood
My Lords, with regard to the increase in paperwork which has resulted from the extra work following the Police and Criminal Evidence Act which we passed last year, may I ask this question? Can my noble friend give us some idea as to how far the extra work is to be absorbed by the police stations all over the country?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I cannot give my noble friend details about paperwork. I am aware from my own visits that, certainly over the transition period before implementation of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act measures, there has been some increase. However, I believe that will not last for ever. I note the position and will pass on the comments of my noble friend.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, can the Minister say whether present establishment figures for the Metropolitan Police have been realised? In other words, is there a difference between what they are entitled to have and the actual numbers?
Second, what effort will be made to ensure that ethnic minority police are recruited? Is there any specific idea as to the numbers involved?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, with regard to the latter part of the supplementary question of the noble Lord, we certainly wish to improve the ethnic recruiting to the police service. I do not have the figures with me but I shall let the noble Lord know the position. With regard to the establishment of the Metropolitan Police today, it is not up to establishment.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, by how many?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I do not have the precise figures in front of me but I shall endeavour to let the noble Lord know. One of the problems of bringing more people into the Metropolitan Police in the way that the noble Lord, Lord Mishcon, suggested, is that the training facilities are already fully occupied and it would not be possible to bring them forward in the way that he suggested.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, can my noble friend confirm whether or not the noble Lord, Lord Mishcon, is right in saying that the Commissioner has asked for 3,000? If that is right, what are the Government's grounds for refusing that number?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I think that it is true that not only the Metropolitan Police but other forces would like to have more police all the time. The fact is that these demands have to be measured by the 394 amount of resources that are available. As I have indicated, with regard to the Metropolitan Police some of the jobs that are at present being done by police officers can more effectively be done by civilians.

§ Lord Boothby
My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that the Answer he has given today flatly contradicts the answer to an almost precisely similar question put by myself to him about a month ago, to which he replied that they had broadly satisfied the requests by the Commissioner of Police for an increase of officers in the Metropolitan Police Force?
Do the Government think that this is the moment to cut his force when the commissioner has begged for an extra 3,000 police, at a time when the crime rate in London is higher and the number of police lower than that of any comparable metropolitan force in the whole of Western Europe? Is he further aware that this country is becoming, gradually but steadily, a legend for drug addiction and violence? Our footballers are banned from the countries of Europe. What sort of example does he think the Government are giving in refusing two or three times the request of the Commissioner of Police, who is ultimately responsible, for a very moderate increase in the number of officers in the Metropolitan Police?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I note the noble Lord's remarks. He has, I think, to bear in mind, as I am sure others will as well, that the number of police has been increased enormously since this Government came in compared with the period between 1974 and 1979, a time which also saw some quite substantial increases in serious problems of rising crime, public disorder and terrorist incidents, when the strength of the police rose by only some 1,800 officers. Since 1979 the Metropolitan Police Force has increased by some 4,559 and we are now adding more. I realise the serious concern which lies behind the noble Lord's question, but we are doing a great deal to meet it.

§ Lord Leatherland
My Lords, concerning the answer which the noble Lord has just given, does he want us to draw the conclusion that since the present Government came into power we have become a more criminal nation?

§ Lord Glenarthur
No, my Lords, that would be a totally wrong assumption. The increase in crime over the last 30 years or so has been more or less steady. Nowadays, we have much more reporting of crime and much more effective policing. That leads to an increase in numbers.

§ Lord Harris of Greenwich
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that not only is the commissioner getting only a fraction of what he has asked for in terms of increased manpower (to answer the question of the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter) but he is having to wait four years in order to get them? Would the noble Lord not accept that many of us regard what he has announced as wholly unsatisfactory, and would he also accept that what he says about resources in police training establishments is frankly untrue? Is he aware that on that point there are resources available in 395 training establishments outside the Metropolitan Police district which have been used in the past when it was necessary to train more policemen who are going to be recruited into the Metropolitan Police? Finally, is he aware that the savage cut-backs in overtime instituted by the present Government have reduced the net manpower in the Metropolitan Police in effective terms by over 300 men?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, so far as the last point is concerned, we started with a very low number of police, as I indicated in answering an earlier question. So far as recruiting up to the new establishment immediately is concerned, the Metropolitan Police cannot do so and we have had to phase the increases. They plan to take on the extra 300 police officers and 150 civil staff approved for this financial year by April of next year. For the following three years they plan to be able to increase strength by 300 police officers and 150 civil staff each year. The noble Lord referred to training establishments. I understand that the information I gave was correct; but so far as training establishments in the provinces are concerned, I do not have details with me. However, I shall certainly look into that matter.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, would my noble friend draw the commissioner's attention to the advantage of now recruiting more special constables? Is it not sad that the strength of our special constabulary has fallen to but 25 per cent. of what it was five years ago? Would the special constables not only build a bridge of understanding between the police and local communities but also help to off-load some of the responsibilities which police officers could well share with the special reservists?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I quite agree with my noble friend that special constables can play a most useful role. Certainly the numbers did drop dramatically, but I believe they are now improving. I believe I gave the details in answer to a Question asked not long ago.

Lord Inglewood
My Lords, can my noble friend give us an idea of the cost of an efficient police service? We have had a number of increases over recent years; no doubt there will be more to come. I think it is right that we should know what sort of figure is involved.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, what I can tell my noble friend is that the 1986–87 costs of increases will be met from within existing budgets, but that the total Metropolitan Police increases, plus provincial police increases for 1986–87—£38 million for police and some £7 million for civilians—will be taken care of through public expenditure costs by 1989–90.

Lord Morris
My Lords, would my noble friend agree that what the police want is not necessarily the same as what they need?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I think that is absolutely right. That is why both the provincial police 396 forces and the Metropolitan Police have asked for more. Of course they would like more, but they are getting a very great deal of help.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, would the noble Lord the Minister put this matter in the correct perspective? Is it not correct that the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, for whom on all sides of this House there is tremendous respect and an appreciation of the burden he bears, has said, with all the responsibility of his office, that he needs 3,000 recruits immediately in order to carry out his task? Is the noble Lord the Minister saying that the Government know better than he does and that merely to supply 10 per cent. of what he has asked for this year (and indeed, if I may correct the noble Lord, Lord Harris, getting only 1,200 out of 3,000 after four years) means the Government are then saying that they take responsibly the promises of the Prime Minister and their own loudly-acclaimed policy in regard to law and order?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, with respect to the noble Lord, a member of a party which did not do nearly as much in the years that it was in office in the 1970s, to indicate that this Government are not recruiting adequately for the police is, with respect, something that I would not have expected of him. The fact is that we have made substantial increases in policing and done a great deal to improve the effectiveness of the police. We are now continuing to do so. As I said, it is quite understandable for either the commissioner, for whom we all have enormous respect, or provincial chief officers of police to ask for more, because of course the more police they have, the more effectively they can undertake their work, but each demand for extra manpower has to be scrutinised carefully on the basis of need and cost. That is what we have done. That is why we have increased the numbers.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, why are the Government so reluctant to appoint a few more thousand police at a time when we have 3¼ million people unemployed? Whoever is recruited to the police and whatever jobs they are doing now, the numbers will ultimately be reflected in a similar drop in the number of unemployed. Do the Government not want to reduce unemployment? Here is an opportunity to reduce it by a few thousand. Why this reluctance?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, those who scrutinise police needs do so with great care and they are thoroughly professional. Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Constabulary is one of those concerned. It is no good simply throwing money and unorganised resources into policing. It has to be properly scrutinised. That is why the need was assessed and established by my right honourable friend. That is why the increased numbers have been announced.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, will the noble Lord the Minister clear up one important point so far as I am concerned? I understand that the Metropolitan Police are several hundred people below establishment. If and when it is agreed that they can increase their 397 establishment to this other figure, whatever it is—and I agree with my noble friend Lord Mishcon that it ought to be nearer 3.000, but let us assume that it is 1,200—would that be over and above the figure which it has been agreed should be their present establishment?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, yes, that figure is above the establishment figure, which they have not yet reached.

§ Lord Harris of Greenwich
My Lords, perhaps I may just ask one last question. Is the noble Lord aware that he used the position of the Chief Inspector of Constabulary in his evaluation of Metropolitan manpower needs in order to justify his position? Is he aware that the Inspectorate of Constabulary has no role whatever in relation to the Metropolitan Police?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, if I said that in relation to the Metropolitan Police, I apologise to the noble Lord. As he will be aware, it does of course have a responsibility to the provincial police forces.