Regional Unemployment: Northern Ireland (Hansard, 20 May 1986)

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Northern Ireland Office (Lord Lyell)
My Lords, Northern Ireland had an unemployment rate of 21.7 per cent. on 10th April 1986. Measures to tackle this problem include the provision, through two specialist agencies, of a highly attractive package of industrial 132 investment incentives, schemes to promote business start-ups and self-employment, community employment programmes and a range of training schemes to enhance the skills of the workforce. As the noble Lord will be aware in March of this year the Government announced a £20 million package of additional enterprise and employment measures which should create up to 3,500 jobs in the first year of operation.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord the Minister for that reply. However, I am gravely anxious that he had to give it because we have had similar replies over the past four years and unemployment has gone up and up and up. Current figures reveal that unemployment in Northern Ireland and throughout the United Kingdom is now cutting deeper than it did in the 1930s. Will the Government look at public endeavour, which will involve private companies, as a way to arrest that terrible decline, and will they make some endeavour to put Britain back on its feet? Particular attention should be paid to Northern Ireland. There is no point in telling Northern Ireland and its people that although they have the highest unemployment level at the moment, under this Government's policies all other regions will increase their unemployment in an endeavour to catch up with them.

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, the noble Lord referred to the measures that I mentioned in my original Answer. I mentioned a £20 million programme. Of that, £5 million will be applicable this year. There will be up to 600 more jobs through community enterprise and Enterprise Ulster and we hope that there will be 200 new jobs through the LEDU enterprise grant and 1,500 new jobs under the new workers scheme, which is for 18, 19 and 20 year-olds. Those measures are relevant to Northern Ireland and we believe that the figures I have quoted are encouraging. We believe that the measures will make progress towards resolving the problem mentioned by the noble Lord.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the noble Lord the Minister aware that the last unemployment figures show that in the regions where unemployment is worse in the United Kingdom as a whole, unemployment is increasing, whereas in the South-East, the South-West and East Anglia, where unemployment is at its lowest, it is now falling? Is that occurring by accident or by design? When will the Government do something to reverse that trend?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, I am afraid that I can only answer for Northern Ireland, which is the subject of the Question on the Order Paper. We intend to see that the figures I mentioned drop, thanks to the measures that I mentioned to the noble Lord and your Lordships.

§ Lord Taylor of Gryfe
My Lords, is the noble Lord the Minister aware that the increase in unemployment in the regions has happened at the same time as there has been a substantial reduction in regional aid? When that policy was initiated the Government suggested that it was a cost-effective way of dispensing regional aid. Is it not time that the impact of the disastrous 133 withdrawal of regional aid from areas of high unemployment was reconsidered?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, to take one element of regional aid unique to Northern Ireland, our local enterprise development unit announced yesterday its job promotion figures for 1985–86. These were slightly below target at 3,900 for this year, compared with a target of 4,200. But the LEDU in Northern Ireland—this is particularly applicable to the noble Lord, with his interest in Scotland—exceeded its target in each of the previous four years. Indeed, over five years the target of 12,000 jobs created by this important arm of regional policy was exceeded by 4,000, which is over 30 per cent. I hope, therefore, that the noble Lord will accept that this arm of regional policy has been a great success in Northern Ireland.

§ Lord Prys-Davies
My Lords, is it not the case that the Northern Ireland Economic Development Council announced a fortnight ago that it was dismayed at the Government's response to the crisis in Northern Ireland? The council called on the Government to introduce urgently seven specific measures to alleviate the position. How do the Government respond to the call of the economic development council for the introduction of new, additional measures urgently?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, the noble Lord will, I believe, accept that what he asks is a little wide of the Question on the Order Paper. I have given some of the measures that we believe are relevant to reducing unemployment. The question that the noble Lord has raised relating to letters from the NIEDC is a little wide of the Question on the Order Paper. If the noble Lord puts down a fresh Question, I shall endeavour to answer it.

§ Lord Molloy
Will the noble Lord the Minister be gracious enough to consider points submitted by the Confederation of Health Service Employees, which feels that if the NHS in Northern Ireland was improved and enlarged many more jobs would be created? Will he also be good enough to convey to the Secretary of State for Employment that if the Government contact the Charter for Jobs organisation and the Foundation for Science and Technology, both specialising in the reduction of unemployment through information technology, he will find that they have a massive contribution to make that would benefit the Minister himself, Northern Ireland and the rest of the country where unemployment is high?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, I shall take on board the points that the noble Lord has raised and pass them on to my honourable friend in respect of the Department of Health and Social Services in Northern Ireland.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, the noble Lord has quoted with some pride, as his noble friend Lord Young does, the number of young people on youth training programmes. We support these schemes. Will the noble Lord bear in mind, however, that they make no impact on unemployment except in a statistical sense, because there are no jobs for these young people when they have been trained?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, the 1,500 young people on the new worker scheme might take issue with the noble Lord. They are in work. They are gaining useful work experience and being paid for this youth training. They would, I believe, take issue with the noble Lord.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, what happens at the end of their training?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, the noble Lord asks what happens at the end of their training. They are receiving training. There are 10 measures altogether. I shall not detail them, but there are nine others apart from that in which the noble Lord showed interest.

§ Lord Brougham and Vaux
My Lords, does my noble friend not agree that if we could have a united front against terrorism in Northern Ireland more companies would invest there and this would reduce unemployment?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, I take on board my noble friend's point.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, would the noble Lord not agree that in some parts of the country, certainly in Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire, with which I am concerned, no less than 80 per cent. of those coming off YTS schemes get jobs?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for pointing this out. I understand that the figures in Northern Ireland are broadly comparable and that the scheme that I have mentioned has been, and continues to be, of the greatest benefit to young people.

§ Lord Blease
My Lords, would the noble Lord the Minister not agree that there is an urgent need in Northern Ireland for all Northern Ireland elected representatives, including district councillors, members of the Northern Ireland Assembly and Members of Parliament, to join with the Northern Ireland employers' organisations and the Northern Ireland Committee of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, who have put forward proposals that would generate employment and who have a splendid record of industrial relations? Is there not an urgent need for all elected representatives in Northern Ireland to show their genuineness and responsibility by joining forces to provide employment opportunities by attending the places to which they have been elected to represent people and to give hope to young people in Northern Ireland?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, we are grateful for that question from the noble Lord. He is absolutely right. It is the duty of everyone, especially those in public life in Northern Ireland, to support any measures we can take to promote investment and industry in the Province. We are grateful to the noble Lord for his help.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, I am sorry to have to disagree with the noble Lord over his remark that the question put by my noble friend Lord Prys-Davies went far beyond the original Question. In so far as the 135 original Question asks what measures are being taken to combat the situation, he mentioned two measures which the Northern Ireland Economic Development Council regards as inadequate. Can he give some information as to why the Government do not follow suggestions that have been made?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, if the Northern Ireland Economic Development Council regard those as inadequate, I can only quote one of my Scottish friends as saying that that is its opinion. There are nine other measures. I shall not detail all of them. I believe, however, that the NIEDC would agree that measures taken by the Government, especially as a result of the Budget, are going a considerable way to reduce unemployment in Northern Ireland. It might not be exactly what the NIEDC wants, but the council would agree, I believe, that our efforts are worthwhile and considerable.