HL Deb 14 May 1986 vol 474 cc1164-9

4.34 p.m.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)

My Lords, with the leave of the House I shall now repeat a Statement on the Foreign Affairs Council on 12th and 13th May which is being made in another place by my honourable friend the Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, Mrs. Lynda Chalker. The Statement is as follows:

"With permission, Mr. Speaker, I should like to make a Statement about the meeting of the Foreign Affairs Council which took place in Brussels on 12th and 13th May 1986. I represented the United Kingdom.

"As a precautionary measure following the Chernobyl disaster, the council agreed a Commission proposal for a regulation to ban the import of certain foodstuffs from the USSR, Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. The ban entered into force on 13th May and will last until 31st May. It will be reviewed on 29th May taking account of the latest scientific evidence. In addition, member states have undertaken to set contamination standards for intra-Community imports which are no higher than those for domestic produce, to limit the contamination level in exports to other member states to that acceptable to the recipient state, and to lift national controls on imports.

"The council discussed Community strategy in preparation for the launch of a new GATT round of trade negotiations. The council discussed improvements to the Community's mandate for negotiations with Mediterranean third countries on the adaptation of their co-operation and association agreements following the accession of Spain and Portugal. There will be further discussion at the June council. The council reviewed the steps being taken to normalise the Community's relations with Turkey in preparation for a meeting of the Association Council which is expected to take place in the early autumn.

"The text of a joint declaration by the council, member states, Commission and Parliament against racism and xenophobia was agreed.

"The council also had a further general discussion of the current budgetary situation in the Community, during which the Commission outlined their plans for a 1986 supplementary budget and the 1987 preliminary draft budget.

"An Association Council with Malta was held in the margins of the council. The operation of the EC Malta Association Agreement and the possible implications for Malta of the enlargement of the Community were discussed."

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, we are grateful to the noble Baroness for repeating the Statement on a matter which is of great concern to the people of this country.

Perhaps I may deal first with the Chernobyl disaster. Did the Minister note the comment in the Financial Times which reads as follows: The whole exercise intended to reassure EEC citizens about their safety has rebounded as the member states have been shown incapable of agreeing on safe levels for often purely commercial reasons"? Does she not agree that the safety factor is more important than the commercial factor? Can she indicate what the source of the disagreement referred to in the Financial Times was, if any?

Can the noble Baroness further say what are the implications of the provisional decision to allow member states to choose their own level of radioactivity in food, for the flow of goods between member states? Do Her Majesty's Government anticipate any further repercussions for British farmers on this? Can she also explain how the permissible radiation level in Britain compares with those in other European countries? Does she not agree that an agreed radiation level is desirable and should be sought urgently? Finally on this point, is there not a danger that the attitudes at the meeting appear, as I have just said, to be based on commercial considerations and not on the safety factor since they seem to have applied a blanket ban on Eastern countries with no reference to those countries in the West over which the radioactive cloud passed? Does she not therefore agree that this is the time for close co-operation among all countries which have nuclear power stations, on the simple ground that emissions from those stations know no national boundaries? Does she not agree that there is no Eastern or Western radiation cloud—there is a radiation cloud? That makes it difficult to understand the list of countries that she has given in the Statement.

May I ask the noble Baroness about another matter? I welcome some of the things that have been said, such as the declaration against racism and xenophobia, but can she say a word about the budget and the problems that may arise? Can she say what are the prospects of a settlement on this matter? I shall say no more because it is a complicated Statement which will require a good deal of definition. But is she satisfied that we are on the road to an agreement? If no agreement is made we are facing an extremely serious budgetary crisis.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, I too should like to thank the noble Baroness for repeating the Statement. There is not a great deal that one can get out of the second half, because it consists mostly of a list of chats which have been had without any conclusion being reached. But matters look ominous when it appears that the Commission has outlined its plans for a supplementary budget which I assume arises from the surpluses and the disposal of them against American competition, bringing down the price. Perhaps the Minister would care to say something about the problems of a new round of GATT talks.

The beginning of the Statement is extremely important in regard to the Chernobyl disaster. The Foreign Ministers have obviously discussed a great deal more than has been written here. I understand a little why the countries specified are mentioned, and not others. I assume it is because they are nearer the accident and subject to a higher degree of radiation. I do not quite understand why East Germany is not mentioned along with Poland, as it may be in the same category. Perhaps above all the noble Baroness will tell us what plans there are for international standards being set and for the setting up of an international body to monitor arrangements for safety and to make arrangements for the disasters which appear to occur even in highly organised countries. I think they must have discussed this, and perhaps the noble Baroness can tell us something about it.

Could she also say what we in this country are doing to give confidence in the pronouncements of the Government? I think it is very important that the Government should come clean on all the levels of radiation and what dangers they present, even though that may raise panic in some people's breasts for a time, as long as the people of this country can believe that the Government are telling the absolute truth. I think that it is very important to establish this standard, and I should very much like to hear the noble Baroness give us an assurance that they are considering these points.

Baroness Young

My Lords, I should like to thank both noble Lords, Lord Cledwyn and Lord Mackie of Benshie, for what they have said about this Statement. Both have referred in considerable detail to the first part of it, which concerns the Chernobyl disaster. If I can, I shall try to deal with the questions that they have raised. First of all, the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, asked me about a possible source of disagreement on the safety levels. I can confirm to him that the original figures on safety levels proposed by the Commission posed some technical difficulties for some member states, but the experts are now meeting on that matter. As far as the question of safety levels and intra-Community trade is concerned, experts are meeting this afternoon in Brussels to agree on safety levels on the basis of scientific data for intra-Community trade.

The noble Lord, Lord Mackie, raised quite particularly the question of East Germany's exclusion. I can assure him—because this has been a point which I know has been raised in another place and has been of concern—that yesterday my honourable friend was given a firm assurance at the Foreign Affairs Council that food exports from the GDR would be strictly controlled by the FRG authorities and would be subject to the same tolerance limits as the very strict domestic levels applied in the FRG itself.

I was also asked about the future and about cooperation between countries in order to be better prepared should such an eventuality happen again. As was agreed at the Tokyo summit meeting, we shall press in the International Atomic Energy Authority for an early negotiation of a convention permitting parties a rapid exchange of information on nuclear emergencies. On the point that the noble Lord, Lord Mackie, made at the end of his remarks about standards of information in this country, I am sure that he will have studied what my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for the Environment said in another place yesterday in the debate there about giving the fullest information as soon as possible on these matters.

If I may turn to the other matters that were raised, the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, welcomed the declaration on racism. On the question of the budget, which both noble Lords raised, may I say that, as to the question of the supplementary budget, the proposed supplementary budget is within the 1.4 per cent. ceiling. It will include a further 500 mecu (or £230 million) in addition to our 1985 abatement; and the proposed additional provision for agriculture primarily reflects the fall in the dollar and the recent EMS alignment. The price-fixing has actually saved money this year, but we shall, of course, be scrutinising proposals for possible savings.

On the particular problem of the budget, the ECJ judgment on the 1986 budget will be agreed in July and the Fontainebleau agreement and the own-resources decision make no provision for increase in the 1.4 per cent. VAT ceiling before 1988. I think this is the point which concerned both noble Lords on the future of the budget. I hope that I have covered all these detailed points in answering the responses to the Statement.

Lord Parry

My Lords, will the noble Baroness accept that there is a massive irony in the fact that the Government's Statement has fallen in the middle of a debate on the prevention of handicap both within Britain and worldwide? Did she see the "Panorama" programme on Monday evening, where disquieting information was given as to the levels of radiation that might or might not cause handicap in children? Did she also see conflicting evidence from doctors, which has been published in the last two days, as to the treatment of vegetables in Europe that have been exposed to radiation fall-out as a result of the Chernobyl disaster? Do the Government intend issuing fresh instructions specifically, for example, as to how to treat green vegetables so exposed?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I am afraid that I did not see the television programme to which the noble Lord has referred, but I can tell him that what the Community have decided to do is to ban the import of fresh fruit and vegetables, live domestic animals, fresh meat, milk and milk products and freshwater fish from the USSR, Romania, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia from 13th May until 31st May. This is a precautionary measure, and it is to be reviewed on 20th May in the light of the latest scientific evidence.

The question may well be raised as to what is the scientific justification for this ban, and there has been a great deal of discussion in the media on the effects of the fall-out from Chernobyl. The fact is that there is no scientific evidence to justify so sweeping a ban, but, in the absence of information from East European countries, it is difficult to establish firm data about contamination levels in Eastern Europe. The Community thought that it was prudent in those circumstances to introduce this short-term precautionary measure until the full scientific information was made available. The application of the ban of course remains subject to review.

On the other detailed points about the effect on the health of individuals, I hope that the noble Lord will appreciate that this was not an issue, I think, specifically discussed at the Foreign Ministers' meeting yesterday. I shall of course draw his remarks to the attention of my right honourable friend.

Lord Mayhew

My Lords, are we to take it from the last reply of the noble Baroness that no tests have been made on the food arriving from the countries that she has listed? However, if tests have been made, what is the level of radioactivity of the most contaminated foods?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I think that it would not be true to say that no tests have been made because tests have been made in Europe, as they have been made in this country, concerning levels of contamination. What I think one does not want to do in what is really a very difficult and new area for everyone is to make statements which might give cause for an increase in the anxiety of people unnecessarily. The Community have taken this view because they feel that it is right to be prudent. It may well be that the whole thing is in fact unnecessary, but as in all matters of health I think it is right in these circumstances to be careful; because, as we know, this is a new situation and it would be a terrible lack of responsibility if, because the Community had not taken these precautions, many people suffered. I wanted to explain precisely the circumstances in which these precautions had been taken. As I have indicated, they are subject to review and the ban will be lifted on a given date.

Lord Auckland

My Lords, as I understand it we are concerned here with imports of food. Can my noble friend the Minister say whether other imports from the Soviet Union, such as toys and other items which could be subject to radiation, are included?

Baroness Young

No, my Lords. The matters which are covered are the list of items which I have just read out to your Lordships.