HL Deb 25 March 1986 vol 472 cc1282-4

2.52 p.m.

The Marquess of Donegall

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government why two Irish cavalry regiments and one yeomanry regiment are under notice to remove their regimental museums from Carrickfergus Castle.

The Minister of State for Defence Support (Lord Trefgarne)

My Lords, the regimental museums of the 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards, the Queen's Royal Irish Hussars and the North Irish Horse have been asked to move out of their present accommodation in Carrickfergus Castle because the lease has expired.

The Marquess of Donegall

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his Answer which he will not be surprised to hear I find far from satisfactory. Arising out of it, is he aware that no place within the United Kingdom is more suitable for housing the museums of these three regiments; that their removal would be against the wishes of all three regiments and the inhabitants of Carrickfergus; and that their presence there represents a considerable tourist attraction to the neighbourhood? If your Lordships will forgive a rather long supplementary Question, is my noble friend also aware that the Department of the Environment as it exists at present in Belfast appears to pay scant regard to the feelings of the ex-servicemen who served in those regiments and to military history and regimental traditions, and that if it so desired it could continue to house these museums and at the same time do the necessary repair to the roof which I believe is required?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I should perhaps point out that the museum authorities were advised as far back as 1982 that the lease would not be renewed when it expired in 1984, and a one-year extension was granted to provide time for alternative arrangements to be made. That was until August 1985. It is now nearly a year after that and still no future arrangements have been made. Having said that, I am aware of the strong feeling that has been expressed, and although this is a responsibility for the Northern Ireland Office and not for the Ministry of Defence, I shall undertake to see what can be done.

Lord Grey of Naunton

My Lords, as one who had the privilege of opening this museum formally and would consequently be exceptionally sorry to see it closed, may I ask the noble Lord whether he agrees that there is no building in Northern Ireland with a closer association with military history and none more suitable for an Army museum, and that diligent search has been made for other buildings but without success? To deprive the museum permanently of Carrickfergus Castle would, I fear, result in the dispersal of the exhibits and the breaking of faith with a great number of people who have given them to the museum.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I recognise that strong feelings are held on this matter, but perhaps I may be permitted to point out that among the places that have been suggested for the 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards museum is Enniskillen Castle, which would, I should have thought, have been rather suitable.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord what he is going to do with Carrickfergus Castle?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, that is a matter for the Northern Ireland Office. I understand that the castle is required by the local authority.

Lord Dunleath

My Lords, in the light of a most useful meeting I had just yesterday morning in Carrickfergus Castle with a representative of the Department of the Environment, Historic Monuments Division, whose attitude was extremely reasonable, will the noble Lord support me if I say to his noble friend Lord Kilmany when I see him on 16th April that, if this attitude of mutual co-operation can not only be maintained but developed, it will not be the museum that goes away but the problem?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords. I am not sure that I quite follow the drift of the noble Lord's supplementary Question, but I have said that I recognise the strong feelings that are held and I shall undertake to see what can be done.

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