HL Deb 19 March 1986 vol 472 cc959-61
Lord Harris of High Cross

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how they can justify the ending of the helicopter link between Heathrow and Gatwick, in view of their acceptance of the need to operate the two airports as a "dual hub" for the London area to continue competing successfully against international competition.

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, in accordance with a direction given in 1984 by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport the helicopter link ceased on 7th February this year. British Caledonian has applied for a new licence to the Civil Aviation Authority, who have granted it but referred the matter to my right honourable friend. He is now considering the Civil Aviation Authority's decision, the transcript of the hearing and the many further representations on the decision which have been submitted to him. He has not yet reached a decision.

Lord Harris of High Cross

My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for that courteous reply. I should like to press him on two related matters. The first is whether he and his right honourable friend are aware that international travellers transferring between Heathrow and Gatwick now have to suffer the inconvenience and delay of going through baggage, immigration and Customs control twice over, which is avoided by the helicopter link? Secondly, are he and his right honourable friend aware of the danger both to British airlines and to British airports from the consequent loss of business, which will only benefit our competitors in Europe and the United States?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord, Lord Harris of High Cross, that my right honourable friend is fully aware of both the points he makes. The problem is very complex. There are cogent arguments on both sides. There are the commercial advantages to be weighed against the environmental disadvantages. I shall certainly remind my right honourable friend about those points, but I am sure he will be taking them into account.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the commercial advantages to which he refers are very substantial in this matter, involving the risk of the transfer of interlining traffic from British airlines and British airports to Schipol or Charles De Gaulle airports? In view of the attitude throughout the aviation world to the major importance of this issue, will my noble friend press his right honourable friend to come to an early decision to have the service resumed?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, my right honourable friend will come to a decision as soon as possible. I shall certainly convey my noble friend's remarks to him.

Lord Underbill

My Lords, is it not a fact that this link was used, on average, by some 90,000 passengers a year? Can he say what are the noise levels involved compared with the noise levels for landing aircraft? Can the noble Viscount also say whether helicopter flights would come within the limits of air transport movement at both Heathrow and Gatwick?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, the noise number index, or NNI, is the accepted method of measuring noise disturbance. For the information of your Lordships, 35 NNI is the low annoyance rating and 55 NNI is the higher rating. The highest NNI value caused by the air link over the proposed route is estimated to be under the low annoyance rating; that is, 27.5 NNI.

On the ATM limits, as the link is between Gatwick and Heathrow my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport has made clear in another place that he has no present intention to set an ATM limit other than at Stansted.

Lord Orr-Ewing

My Lords, may I urge my noble friend to consider again this suspending of one service before an alternative method is in place? It is unthinkable that we, the hub of European traffic, should put ourselves at a grave disadvantage, more particularly when the noise factor is below the 35 NNI which is measured. Can we not have an early decision? If not, ought we not to have a special debate in this House underlining the urgency of replacing what ceased on 7th February at the earliest conceivable moment?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I remind my noble friend that the helicopter service was first introduced on a trial basis in 1978. It was renewed for a further five years in 1979 and was not intended to last beyond the opening of the M.25. But I shall draw my noble friend's remarks to the attention of my right honourable friend, who I hope will be making a decision within weeks rather than months.

Lord Rugby

My Lords, does the noble Viscount the Minister envisage any chance of there being a direct express rail link between the two airports which will not stop anywhere in London?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I do not think that matter has been considered.

Lord Polwarth

My Lords, will the Government bear in mind that at the inquiry into this matter it appeared that much of the noise to which exception was taken by objectors could not be directly attributed to this service but was due to general aircraft and helicopter movements in the area?

Viscount Davidson

Yes, my Lords, I am aware of that.

Lord Morris

My Lords, if my noble friend said, as he did, that this service was intended for a trial period of five years from 1979, how can he say that it was not intended to extend the service longer if it was run for a trial period?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, it was introduced for a trial period in 1978. The renewal application was approved in 1979 to run to 1984, but it was then stated that that trial period would end when the M.25 was opened.

Lord Underhill

My Lords, although the Minister said that there was no intention on the part of the Secretary of State to have a limit on ATMs at either Heathrow or Gatwick but to have one at Stansted, assuming that he is compelled to have a limit on transport movements, would helicopter movements be included or would they be excluded?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I am informed that the air link would be affected.

Lord Orr-Ewing

My Lords, will my noble friend consider that, if the M.25 was an alternative, surely it is possible to lay on a sealed bus from transit area to transit area so that people transferring do not have to go through Customs and immigration at both ends? They would have to go through no Customs and immigration to catch another aircraft to their Continental destinations, and thereby they would not go round Britain but would use Britain, to the great benefit of British arrangements.

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I think that I may be beginning to suffer from schizophrenia. I see my noble friend Lord Glenarthur sitting beside me. I think that that matter could be one for the Home Office as well as for transport. But I shall certainly bring it to the attention of my right honourable friend.

Lord Harris of High Cross

My Lords, if the noble Viscount were a betting man, what odds would he give us that there will be an answer that is both early and favourable?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I have to say that that is a hypothetical question, as I prefer not to bet.

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