§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, further to their Statement printed in the Official Report on 5th December (col. 1404) as requested by Baroness Burton of Coventry, concerning their wide-ranging discussions with the electricity industry, they will state what progress has been made on the proposed new legislation and whether this will be brought forward this Session.
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, as the noble Baroness will know, these measures were not among those referred to in the Queen's speech for inclusion in this Session's legislative programme. However, the Government remain committed to introducing this legislation as soon as parliamentary time is available.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, the Minister has done his best and that I appreciate. But this matter first arose over the abuse by some landlords of the resale of electricity. Does the Minister recall that I brought to the attention of the department on whose behalf he has to answer today the statement made by the Minister of State for Energy in Standing Committee F when dealing with the Gas Bill (at col. 1154 of Hansard) on 27th February?
Does the noble Lord further recall that the Minister said:
It might be helpful if I described the action that the Government propose to take over the recommendations of the Director General of Fair Trading on the resale of electricity. The Director General discovered clear evidence of abuse in overcharging for electricity. As a result of his report, the Government intend to introduce an order requiring that the price"—
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, it is a question. I am asking whether he recalls it—
requiring that the price charged for electricity by landlords should be clearly set out in an itemised statement and that the landlord must be responsible for stating the maximum price".
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMay I ask the Minister whether the Government stand by that statement, and whether he anticipates that the House can be told whether action will be taken soon? No delay was mentioned by the Minister of State.
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I appreciate the concern that the noble Baroness expresses. As I hoped to indicate in my original Answer, the Government too share that concern. As the noble Baroness will be aware, there are many pressures on the parliamentary timetable. The Government are fully seized of the importance of this matter and hope that the necessary legislation will not be long delayed, particularly as other pressing matters of consumer safety and price indications are also involved in this possible legislation. The remarks made by my honourable friend in the committee in another place refer to this proposed legislation.
§ Baroness Fisher of RednalMy Lords, the point that the noble Baroness is making is a very important one because most of the people who are concerned are those who are living in rooms or various types of accommodation, and are more often than not those people—
§ Baroness Fisher of RednalMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware—we know very well that he is aware—that many of the persons concerned are those who are in the lower income brackets and therefore have little redress when they appeal directly to the landlord for any help? It is important that those persons about whom the noble Baroness has spoken should be protected.
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, that is exactly the purpose of the legislation that we hope to be able to bring in as soon as possible. I would give perhaps two small crumbs of comfort to the noble Baroness. As from the new tariffs being introduced next month, in April, the daily availability charge will be fixed as a maximum, the same as an ordinary domestic consumer would have to pay; and the maximum tariff chargeable will also be fixed the same as an ordinary consumer would have to pay in most of the electricity boards.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Burton, quoting from a speech made on behalf of the Department of Energy in another place, seemed to indicate, as I understood it, a degree of urgency? The reply of the noble Lord this afternoon seems to be rather more vague. Can we have an assurance that there are complete diplomatic relationships established between the Department of Energy and the Department of Trade and Industry, and that they are both of the same mind and hold the same degree of urgency on this matter?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I can certainly give the noble Lord that assurance. The reference which he makes to what was said by the spokesman from the Department of Energy refers to legislation which will be promoted, I hope, by the Department of Trade and Industry. As I am a spokesman for both departments in your Lordships' House I can assure the noble Lord that that is correct.
§ Lord StallardMy Lords, can the noble Lord tell the House whether any reference will be made in any new legislation to the increase in standing charges, which seems to be a continuing process? When added to all the other standing charges, particularly in the case of pensioners, great difficulty is created when one considers that the standing charges amount to about £4.50 a week before we even switch on a light bulb or a gas appliance, or buy anything. Will anything be said in legislation about the need to reduce those standing charges?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, the question of standing charges is a slightly different matter in that the proposed legislation refers to the "passing-on", if I may put it that way, of the standing charge from the landlord to the tenant. I am not quite sure from where the noble Lord gets the sum of £4.50 a week for standing charges. My understanding is that the highest sum for standing charges in any of the electricity board areas is somewhere in the region of £7.80 a quarter.
§ Lord StallardMy Lords, I am sorry, but I said that that was the sum when added to other standing charges like, for example, telephone, gas and water. If you put them all together you arrive at that amount. I thought that the noble Lord the Minister and other noble Lords would understand that.
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, in that case, I think that it really is a very different question altogether.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, does the Minister realise that however early this matter may be considered, if it is to be taken up in the next Session, it will be at least a year before this abuse by some landlords is dealt with? Moreover, this matter affects some of the poorer sections of our community. Could not the Minister persuade the department to get a move on?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I remind the noble Baroness that the report of the Director General of Fair Trading was only published in June last year. It takes a certain amount of time to translate the Director General's recommendation into legislation; and, as I have said, there are other matters also involved in the possible legislation. I am aware of the concern expressed by the noble Baroness. However, as she will be aware, there is a good deal of advertising going on at the moment. Moreover, there are existing rules as well, and this will only be an improvement on the existing rules. There is quite a considerable campaign of advertising and there will be more advertising following the new tariff arrangement which will take place next month. It is hoped that that will draw people's attention to the problem.