Unemployment Figures (Hansard, 3 March 1986)

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Secretary of State for Employment (Lord Young of Graffham)
My Lords, as the reply contains a statistical table I shall, with permission, arrange for the full reply to be published in the Official Report. The average number of unemployed claimants in the United Kingdom in 1985 was 3,271,000, and the corresponding estimate for 1978 was 1,383,000. Following is the statistical table referred to:

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. Will he confirm that in the first year to which my Question relates—that is, the last year of the Labour Government—unemployment was decreasing? Is he aware that all his endeavours to call the figures in a different way do not take away from the agony of the family of someone who has been on the dole for a year or two? This is not merely a question of statistics, for there are many cases of absolute agony in the homes of millions of British families. Is that a fact which the Minister also takes into account?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, of course I take into account the facts that the noble Lord points out. However, I take into account also that, while we are an island, we are today part of the greater European Economic Community, and that in the period in question unemployment in the United Kingdom has increased by a factor of 2.4 times. That is regrettable, and I am sure that everyone in your Lordships' House regrets the increase in unemployment. Nevertheless, I am impelled to point out that in France unemployment has increased by a factor of 2.1 times; in Germany, by a factor of 2.3 times; and in Spain, by a factor of 3 times. It is necessary and, I suspect, sensible to bear in mind the general effect of unemployment, which has become the European disease.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, does the Minister honestly believe that a family in which the breadwinner has been on the dole for a few years, and which has suffered the anguish which that brings, will be filled full of joy about the figures for Europe that he has just read out, and will be ever so happy? Will the noble Lord reply to the first part of my question, which he has failed to answer? Is it not a fact that in the final year of the last Labour Government unemployment was decreasing?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
No, my Lords; but I do not believe that the noble Lord's response will give a shred of comfort to anybody who is unemployed in this country. What will do so is the simple fact that for the last two years employment in this country has increased by 3 per cent. In Japan it increased by 1.7 per cent., and in France it actually fell by 1 per cent. We all feel emotional about unemployment. What is required is action, and action that works.

Noble Lords
When?

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is it not a fact that, outside Italy, the unemployment rate in this country is the highest in the Western industrial world? Is it not also a fact that since the last general election 1,801,000 jobs have been lost? In other words, there are 1,801,000 fewer people at work than there were in 1978. May I once again ask the noble Lord to ensure that he puts the point of view to the Government before the budget that what we want is not individual tax cuts but action on unemployment—direct action?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, what we need, of course, is for Government policies to be sustained and continued. When I pointed out the way in which unemployment has increased throughout the whole of Western Europe, I took as examples both Germany and France, where the increase has been comparable over the same period; but I did not mention that those countries have conscription—a course that I would not advocate for this country but which has a bearing on youth unemployment at the very least.
In the last two years, employment in this country has increased (as everybody in your Lordships' House is no doubt tired of hearing me tell) not only faster than in any other country in Europe but faster than the whole of Europe put together. If we are to do anything about unemployment—and I ask everybody in your Lordships' House to think for a moment sensibly and seriously about unemployment—then the only way that we can reduce unemployment is by increasing employment. In giving the figures that I have, I have not pointed out that in France the workforce is falling, whereas in this country it increased by 510,000 last year.

§ The Earl of Onslow
My Lords, is it not true that this country provides a higher percentage of jobs than any other country in the European Community outside Denmark? Is it not equally true that if we can sustain even a modest 3 per cent. growth in GDP we shall eventually start getting people back to work? Is it not the case also that everybody on these Benches is concerned every bit as much as those on the Benches opposite about idle people and about people having nothing to do? The devil makes work for idle hands, and it is in nobody's interests that that should happen. The Government's policies of growth should be supported, and tax cuts that promote growth should equally be supported.

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, I am happy to confirm that, of all adults of employable age in the United Kingdom, 65 per cent. are in paid employment. The figure for France is 60 per cent. and for Germany it is 59 per cent. The average for OECD 8 Europe is 58 per cent. On that gound alone we have cause for congratulation. I, for one, and all on these Benches, shall not rest until the number of unemployed has come down.

§ Lady Saltoun of Abernethy
My Lords, will the Minister tell the House how many of the long-term unemployed are married women?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, that is another question. I am not sure whether we have that particular information. To my knowledge, all married women are fully employed.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, bearing in mind that the present Prime Minister fought and won the last two general elections using as one of her main planks a promise to reduce unemployment, and bearing in mind also that the statistics show that during her period as Prime Minister of this country unemployment has in fact trebled, when will the Minister be able to tell the House that the Prime Minister and the Government will achieve the objectives that they set themselves at those two general elections?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, in my main Answer to the Question I showed that although unemployment has increased by 2.4 times in the United Kingdom, over the same period it has increased by 2.1 times in France and 2.3 times in Germany. When one takes into account the way in which the economy was left for those on this side of the House who came into government with a legacy of 10 years of overmanning, one will see that we have done remarkably well to maintain the present position.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I acknowledge the Minister's tenacity in trying to find an answer to this question of grave unemployment, but he has been totally unsuccessful. The Minister mentioned other efforts that we could make. Would it be possible for the Government to consider the situation as it once existed in America, where, when pared to the bone and finding themselves in a terrible situation with unemployment almost worse than we have today, a Scottish economist and Keynes worked out a system that was accepted by the President of the United States (and I hope that this Government do not dismiss Franklin D. Roosevelt)? They provided an answer based on "spend and prosper". Does the Minister not agree that that was a much better response than the ridiculous banality that we were offered by the present chairman of the Conservative Party when he was Employment Minister—that if there were 3 million bicycles then 3 million jobs could be found by people travelling around this country on their bikes? Will the Minister give the House an assurance that such total nonsense will not be entertained by him?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
No, my Lords.

§ Lord Stallard
My Lords, is the Minister able to give the House a breakdown of the figures, so that we may know how many jobs have been lost in manufacturing industry? How many more unemployed are there in manufacturing industry? Is it not a fact that hundreds 9 of thousands of jobs in manufacturing industry have disappeared for ever? Although unemployment is bad enough, the fact that there are no job opportunities for youngsters in manufacturing industries is even worse.

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, that is another question. However, it is worth while pointing out to all your Lordships' House that the United Kingdom still exports 30 per cent. of her GDP and that exports per capita are higher than that of France, Germany, the United States of America and Japan. In those circumstances, where is the industrial desert that I keep on reading about?

§ Lord Ennals
In the North, my Lords.