HL Deb 18 June 1986 vol 476 cc854-6

2.47 p.m.

Viscount Cross

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the present bridges on the M.25 motorway will allow the building of a fourth lane in each direction all the way round London, leaving aside the possibility of a second crossing of the Thames at Dartford.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (The Earl of Caithness)

My Lords, a full standard dual four-lane motorway with hard shoulders could not be provided without major alterations to over 300 bridges and numerous other structures.

Viscount Cross

My Lords, I should like to thank the noble Earl the Minister for that reply, though I am disappointed that it is in the negative. At the same time I should like to congratulate him on the construction of this bold and imaginative road around London. In view of the traffic problems on the M.25, will he consider adopting the traffic system as practised on the freeways of the United States of America and that practised in, for example, Oxford Street whereby all lanes are equal, so as to make the best possible use of the road space provided and to ensure the free flow of traffic?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I can assure my noble friend and the House that we have seriously considered whether overtaking on either side on motorways is a possibility. We are not in favour of that alternative driving procedure for different classes of roads because we believe that road safety, which is paramount, depends upon uniformity.

Lord Underhill

My Lords, does the noble Earl's Answer ignore the fact that a survey is being undertaken by the Secretary of State? I have a copy of press notice 261 dated 13th May, which refers to a speech given on the evening of that date by the former Secretary of State to the Federation of Civil Engineering Contractors in which he said that a survey was being undertaken not merely on the question of widening but also on whether other measures might be introduced. Is this a survey of only certain sections of the M.25 or the whole of it, dealing not only with the possibility of extra lanes but also with all the problems of the heaviness of traffic; and when can that report be expected?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I am grateful for the noble Lord's question. I can tell him that the study area is junctions 10 to 13 in the south-west sector, not the whole of the M.25. We expect the results shortly.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, will my noble friend break it to his right honourable friend that his right honourable friend's predecessor was quite wrong in basing an important aviation decision on the theory that there would be a quick and easy flow of traffic between Gatwick and Heathrow on the M25, whereas the contrary has been the case?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I am well aware of my noble friend's concern for the helicopter link. When the study is completed, we hope that it will give some solutions for achieving a speedier flow of traffic in that south-west sector.

Lord Underhill

My Lords, will the noble Earl say why the survey is being restricted to certain sections of the M.25 when there are general complaints about various sections?

The Earl of Caithness

Yes, my Lords. The most pressing complaints at the moment relate to the south-west sector. Our consultants are looking into a number of items connected with the motorway such as the remodelling of junctions, better traffic management and perhaps widening the carriageways, or a combination of those measures, that might well help. If any results come forward from the study that can be applied to other parts of the motorway, we shall not fail to apply them.

Lord Auckland

My Lords, is my noble friend the Minister aware that road safety is of extreme importance? Those like myself who live within half a mile of an intersection in Surrey consider that road safety is much more important than increasing the traffic on the motorway.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I hope that both can be done.

Viscount Cross

My Lords, will my noble friend the Minister not agree that drivers in this country drive quite as well as those in any other country? Can he say why it should be more dangerous to overtake on the left-hand side than on the right-hand side?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I agree that drivers in this country are perhaps no better and no worse than drivers anywhere else. But we believe that uniformity is essential for road safety. It would cause severe complications, I believe, for many drivers if they were suddenly told that they could overtake on the left-hand side on a given section of road. That would cause problems not only to the person undertaking the manoeuvre but also to others who were unaware of it.

Lord Mellish

My Lords, will the noble Earl give an undertaking that if the survey to which he refers confirms that the M.25 is not the salvation that it was believed to be, certainly by the Minister, he will look again to see whether the helicopter link can be resumed?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I cannot give that undertaking. I shall draw the noble Lord's point to the attention of my right honourable friend.