§ Lord KissinMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows: To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in their bilateral agreements on air fares already made or under negotiation with other European countries, account is taken of the regulation in regard to the proportion of club class passengers and economy class passengers on short flights within the EC.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (The Earl of Caithness)My Lords, the Government are seeking in their bilateral arrangements in Europe to reduce substantially the control of governments over the level of air fares and the conditions attached to them. It is for individual airlines to allocate seats between the different types of fare as they consider the market demands.
§ Lord KissinMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Am I right in understanding that the reduction as regard air fares is solely confined to air fares for the economy class and that the negotiations do not include the club class?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I think that it depends on each individual airline. As a result of our recent efforts we have achieved more liberal arrange-ments with the Netherlands, and I know that if the noble Lord seeks to go there he will find that there is a much greater choice and variety of seat allocations than hitherto.
§ Lord KissinMy Lords, is the Minister aware that an increasing number of airlines at present are allocating a greater number of seats to the club class than to the economy class? I have been a passenger on a short-haul flight from Brussels to this country, and there were about 185 club seats and 15 economy class seats. Is not that a way to avoid the basic agreement that is reached for the reduction of economy class seats?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that on certain flights there will be a preponderance of business class seats. For example, if one travels from London to Brussels on an 8 o'clock flight on a Monday morning one will find that there is a very high proportion of business class passengers. However, it varies with the time of day and the type of flight.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, if the noble Lord, Lord Kissin, feels that the proportion of seat allocations between club class and economy class passengers sometimes works to the disadvantage of 672 passengers, would the noble Earl the Minister—although it is the responsibility of the airlines concerned—feel inclined to look into specific cases which the noble Lord, Lord Kissin, may be able to send him?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I should certainly be glad to look at any case which any noble Lord wishes to bring to my attention.
§ Lord AucklandMy Lords, my noble friend has mentioned Holland as an example of a country in respect of which agreement has been reached over these charges. However, is he aware that flights to Denmark are marked by very high fares as regards both club and economy class? Is he able to say what negotiations are taking place in respect of flights to that country?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, we are pursuing bilateral negotiations with most of the European countries with which we do not have liberal arrangements at the moment. Moreover, as in particular the noble Baroness, Lady Burton of Coventry, will know, we are pursuing matters in the EC as well.
§ Lord KennetMy Lords, will the noble Earl agree that there is also a public health point involved? Is he aware that on one flight from Brussels to London last week there were precisely 1½ rows of seats for economy class non-smokers?