§ Baroness NicolMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows: To ask Her Majesty's Government what support they have given to the Lead Development Association's campaign to reduce incidents of lead poisoning in swans by encouraging the use of non-toxic weights by anglers.
§ The Minister of State, Department of the Environ-ment (Lord Elton)My Lords, the Lead Development Association has launched a scheme to persuade anglers to dispose of their lead fishing weights by arranging a number of collection centres where representatives of angling clubs may bring lead weights for disposal in return for the going rate for lead scrap. My honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-secretary of State for the Environment has welcomed the introduction of the scheme and commended it to all Anglicans—I am sorry, my Lords: to all anglers, of whatever denomination!—and to angling clubs.
§ Baroness NicolMy Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply, and I am sure that someone will get him off the hook before the end of this Question! Will he accept that we support him in his praise for the Lead Development Association? It is public-spirited, and I am sure that it will be helpful. Can the noble Lord tell the House whether the proposed by-laws have been used by water authorities to ban the use of lead shot? Can he also tell us whether a non-toxic alternative for dust shot has yet been developed?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I am glad that the noble Baroness agrees that it is an excellent scheme. As to the water authorities, my right honourable friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food issued a model by-law to the water authorities in July last year which will enable them, if they wish, to make by-laws to prohibit the use of fishing weights, but as far as I know they have not yet done so. I am not aware as yet of a satisfactory alternative to dust shot as opposed to larger shot, but if events have overtaken me I shall write to the noble Baroness.
§ Lord SomersMy Lords, does the noble Lord agree that very little will be achieved by persuasion, and that uncoated lead will have to be banned altogether if progress is to be made? Is it not possible to make it compulsory, if lead has to be used, that it is coated with a non-toxic metal?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I am not competent to answer the noble Lord's technical question about preventing lead being harmful when ingested by swans, though I suspect that the grinding effect of the process in the gizzard would remove the coating and render it toxic in any case. As to legislation, we have gone out to consultation and have also consulted the Nature Conservancy Council about the desirability of legislation. We are considering the result of those approaches and will come to a decision shortly.
§ Viscount MerseyMy Lords, can my noble friend go a little further on the question of legislation" 1 asked much the same Question in January 1985, and I think it was he who answered it, promising legislation towards the end of 1986. Is that still the case?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, the undertaking was to legislate if it proved that the voluntary process which is now being tried was not successful. The consultation is to determine whether it has been successful, and we shall know the answer shortly.
§ Lord KilbrackenMy Lords, are not non-toxic weights in most cases every bit as efficacious as lead weights? Does the noble Lord know why anglers persist in using lead?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I can only imagine that it is because they prefer it, but what the reason is for their preference I do not know.
Viscount St. DavidsMy Lords, does the House consider that the Lead Development Association should be commended for its action and, what is more, for its general conservationist attitude, in that it hopes that that and other lead will go into lead accumulators and batteries which will power electric boats, which will thus cause even less pollution of our inland waterways?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I have for long been aware of the noble Viscount's interest in the matter, but I do not think that I have ever discovered him so ingenious in bringing it to your Lordships' notice.
§ Lord RugbyMy Lords, as the swan swallows hook, line and sinker, are not the hook and line equally toxic, especially when it is a barbed hook?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, something like 3,000 swans a year die a very unpleasant death as a result specifically of lead poisoning. There may well be other unpleasant deaths, but we are addressing ourselves to the poisoning aspect. It is a large problem and one which should be tackled, and I think we must do that.
§ Lord Mackie of BenshieMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether the swan population is rising as a result of the measure, or is it still falling?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I think it is a little early to say, as this will be the first breeding season affected by the experiment. If the noble Lord will ask a Written Question later, I may be able to answer it.