Engineers and Technicians: Training (Hansard, 9 July 1986)

§ Lord Taylor of Blackburn
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows: To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have received the Engineering Council document A Call to Action: Continuing Education and Training for Engineers and Technicians, and if so, what action they intend to take.

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, the Government welcome the attention drawn to this important document which has indeed been received by the Department of Education and Science and a number of other departments. We recognise the urgent need to increase participation by key sectors of the labour force—such as engineers and technicians—in regular, flexible and up-to-date continuing education in order to secure growing competitiveness of British goods and services. We shall encourage colleges and universities to develop continuing education for engineers along the lines suggested by the report's "Good Practice". We are considering the report's evidence of need for further funding incentives for institutions and its call for further publicity and support for individuals, employers and professional institutions.

§ Lord Taylor of Blackburn
My Lords, while thanking the noble Earl for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware that Britain is falling behind in continuing education and training and also in the new technologies and developments that are taking place so rapidly? Is he prepared to recognise that without the training of engineers, our competitiveness in the world will go down?

§ The Earl of Swinton
Yes, my Lords. I am very grateful to the noble Lord for asking this question. This is a report that we wish to publicise as much as possible. What he says is very much the message that comes out of it. The essential message, I believe, is the need to bring about a change in attitude so that all the individuals concerned see the necessity for keeping themselves up to date and well trained.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, is one reason for the need to ensure better continued training the fact that it has taken us so long to change from three-year to four-year degree courses? To revert to a question that I asked the noble Earl on a previous occasion, what is the Government's policy on the supply of engineering graduates, bearing in mind that the transition from three- to four-year degree courses means a decline of 25 per cent. in the number qualifying in any one year if the number of places remains the same?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, I have read the report but that is not one of the messages I draw from 286 it. I shall write to the noble Lord with the answer to his question.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, we have listened with care to what the noble Earl said about the consideration being given by the Government to further funding. Can he give the House any indication as to when that consideration will result in a decision by the Government and an announcement of that decision? Is it not also the case that, apart from the issue of funding, there is a grave need for breaking down the barriers between different grades of engineers? Is it not absurd that in 1986 there should still be a distinction between technician engineers and engineering technicians, quite apart from the distinction between graduate engineers and those with other engineering responsibilities and duties?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, the report came out less than a month ago. Obviously, it has budget implications. I cannot therefore tell the noble Lord when we intend to take a decision. But I should make it clear that the Government take the view that the cost of updating training should normally be paid by the beneficiaries, who are usually the employers. However, we recognise that if this work is to expand in the way we think necessary, development funds are required and we have made a start by increasing the pickup programme to £6 million this year.
With regard to his second question, what the noble Lord said seemed to strike me as a lot of sense. However, I am afraid I have not been briefed on it and I shall have to write to him with the answer.