HL Deb 08 July 1986 vol 478 cc164-7

2.54 p.m.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows: To ask Her Majesty's Government what action they are taking to provide employment for those who have been unemployed for over a year.

The Secretary of State for Employment (Lord Young of Graffham)

My Lords, last week we extended the restart programme nationally. Now everyone who has been unemployed for a year or more will be approached, invited to the jobcentre and offered one or more of eight positive opportunities designed to help them back into employment.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us whether the Government have reconsidered their opposition to the recommendations of the Select Committee on Employment of another place, which reiterated its proposals that the Government should guarantee a job to everyone who has been unemployed for over three years and that there should be pilot schemes for the provision of employment to those who have been unemployed for more than one year?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, since the Select Committee of another place made its report, to which we responded, two things have happened. First, there has been a scrutiny of the community programme which shows the dangers of expanding that programme too far and shows, indeed, that there are still difficulties in expanding the programme to anything as large as 255,000 places which it will have by November. Secondly, since then the Government have embarked on the most ambitious scheme of any country in the nationalised—I mean the industrialised—world—

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, the denationalised world.

Lord Young of Graffham

—the denationalized world, as the noble Lord says. That scheme will go out to each and every person among the long-term unemployed. That is, I believe, a more effective response.

The Lord Bishop of Manchester

My Lords, can the noble Lord say to what extent the Government are taking account of widespread disparities in the effect of long-term unemployment in different parts of the country and how far the scheme that he has outlined relates, to that situation?

Lord Young of Graffham

Yes, my Lords. We are giving assets to the scheme in proportion to the long-term unemployed who live in a particular area. We have therefore given adequate resources in that regard. I should, however, point out that until recently there were twice as many long-term unemployed people living in London and the South-East as in the whole of the North-East.

Lord McCarthy

My Lords, in relation to the reply given by the noble Lord to my noble friend Lord Hatch, is it not the case that the Government criticised the Select Committee of another place, saying that it had exaggerated the extent to which there would be job creation as a result of its policies and that, in fact, there would only be 20 per cent. net job creation? Does that not apply to the Government's own policies? Does it not apply to the job start scheme? Does it not apply to the new worker scheme? Does it not mean no more than 8,000 jobs in positive net job creation in respect of the jobstart scheme because there is not enough money to do more? Would not the same apply to the new worker scheme? Is it not the case that the same criticism that the Government levelled at the Select Committee in another place can be levelled at their own policies?

Lord Young of Graffham

No, my Lords, I do not think that it can at all. The Select Committee has recognised that its original report was far too ambitious and has since scaled down that report. It is looking for something far less ambitious which I still believe even now would be impossible to put into effect. What the jobstart allowance does and what the new worker scheme allowance does is to target those allowances on two specific groups. I refer to long-term unemployed people looking for a job at a wage of under £80 a week. There are 400,000 such jobs each year in the economy. I refer also, in the main, to young people, in particular those coming off two-year YTS and those who have missed YTS, and their entry into the labour market.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, may I ask the Minister an additional point to that submitted by the right reverend Prelate? Does he accept that in some areas of the country there are families where more than one member of the family have been unemployed for over a year? It is a sad and serious situation. Is it possible for the Minister to take that factor into account and to give as much help as possible to those areas w here that statistic applies?

Lord Young of Graffham

Yes, my Lords. I should, however, point out that, so far as unemployment is concerned, I do not believe that we have a North-South divide. What we have is an inner urban, rural and suburban divide. There are many pockets of very high unemployment in London and the South-East and there are many places of low unemployment up in the North.

Lord Ross of Marnock

My Lords, we have heard a lot about schemes from the Government. Can the noble Lord answer a simple question? Is the number of long-term unemployed rising or falling?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, the number of long-term unemployed at the moment is stable. I have ventured to forecast that when the figures come out for Christmas we shall find that, thanks to the concentration of government effort on that category, which I believe most worthy of all of help, it has started to do down.

Baroness Turner of Camden

My Lords, how many of the new jobs anticipated would be part-time, and how many would be full-time? My impression is that much new employment is part-time and in unskilled areas.

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, I do not think that impression is fair. In talking about the number of net increases in jobs—in considering the million increase—noble Lords opposite have drawn attention to the fact that many are part-time. Of course they are because in this country we manage to find jobs for over 65 per cent. of all people of employable age. But if one looks at France or Germany, one sees that it is 59 per cent. or 60 per cent. In Italy it is 54 per cent. The reason is that we have many more women in employment. Many of the women who are going into work are looking for part-time work.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, is this not the answer to my noble friend Lord Ross of Marnock? Over the last three years the long-term unemployed have increased by a quarter of a million. Can the noble Lord tell the House whether he is aware that the Select Committee to which I have previously referred rejected the criticisms of the Government—a Select Committee with a majority of Conservative members—and reiterated its demand that those who have been unemployed for more than three years have a right from the Government to be offered a job?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, I should like to confirm that long-term unemployment has been rising each quarter this decade, as it has been rising all over Europe. It is no good the noble Lord refusing to look at the rest of Europe. Although we are an island, we are part of Europe; we are part of the same industrialised society. We can learn from our partners in Europe, and I hope that they can learn from us. A Select Committee did disagree with the Government—I suspect not for the first or last time. I often think that that is the principal function in life of Select Committees.