Holloway Prison: C1 Unit (Hansard, 20 January 1986)

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Glenarthur)
My Lords, we see no grounds for reviewing the arrangements under which mentally disturbed inmates at Holloway Prison are located on C1 Unit, which is part of the prison hospital. We have agreed that C1 should be resited in 6 purpose-built accommodation. As an interim measure, a programme of detailed improvements to its fabric, management structure and regime has been started.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer, but does he not agree that the two tragedies highlight the inadequacies of the C1 Unit? Will he say, first, whether a date has been set and funds allocated for the replacement unit which he mentioned; and, secondly, whether he agrees that every report on the unit has recommended its closure? Will he agree to meet a delegation made up of all those involved in the unit to see whether an arrangement can be made to hasten the end of that shameful institution?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I straightaway say that I share the concerns that many express about the unit, but it is important to get the changes to the present unit right and to get the new unit right as well. The noble Baroness asked for an estimate on cost and on timing for the new unit. I am afraid that I cannot yet give her that information. But, as I said, the improvements to the present unit are going ahead and I have every confidence that they will come forward in the not too distant future, but it is important to get them right.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, will the noble Lord answer the latter part of my supplementary question? Will he receive a delegation?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I shall be delighted to consider the invitation to accept a delegation if somebody contacts me to let me know precisely what it wants to talk about.

§ Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge
My Lords, does the noble Lord remember that when he answered the noble Baroness on 23rd July I intervened to say that I thought the matter ought to be dealt with very much more urgently than he was suggesting, and he said that what mattered was to get it right at the end of the day? I replied with lightning repartee, "So long as we do not have to wait till the end of the day". We are not only having to wait till the end of the day: there is no day named. I am speaking very seriously. It is terrible that this situation should continue, and that there should have been two further suicides since the noble Lord said that he was then (which was already far too late) putting in hand an examination of what should be done. I know that he is as embarrassed about this as I am, but I assure him that what he has said is in no way satisfactory.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, as I have made clear on earlier occasions, it has been necessary to assess the condition of the fabric in some detail before planning the changes that can be made. The detail has necessarily to be gone into if real improvements are to be achieved. I desire the same aims as the noble Lord, but we shall not get anywhere by rushing. I can tell him, however, that the matter is being gone into extremely thoroughly and the results will be worth having at the end of the day.

§ The Earl of Longford
My Lords, is the Minister aware that there is widespread recognition of the fact 7 that the situation in Holloway is a total mess, as acknowledged by the Government in July, and that it appears that nothing whatever has been done in the meantime, whatever may have been planned?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, one does not build new units to replace old units in prisons overnight. We have agreed to undertake the planning of the new unit. Progress towards that is being made in conjunction with the DHSS, taking up the recommendations made in the Holloway project report. In the meantime, we are taking steps to put right, where we can, the shortcomings of the present unit.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, will the Minister agree that the problems of the C1 Unit is by no means only a matter of bricks and mortar, and that it is putting an intolerable burden on prison staff who are not, and cannot be expected to be, trained at present to cope with the kind of problems they meet there? Does he agree that any changes that are made should include changes in the nature of the staffing as well as in the nature of the building?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, we have already taken steps to improve the management of the unit. Interviews for the selection of a suitable doctor in the post of senior medical officer with responsibility for C1 have taken place. The senior medical officer will have a key role to play in the creation of the right management framework and also in the provision of an appropriate regime.
As to training of staff, we would expect in the long term to staff C1 with fully trained hospital officers with nursing qualifications. In the short term, it has been decided to supplement the present C1 staff training with a special course for a multi-disciplinary C1 team. Arrangements have been made for the course to take place in March. So that, I think, is progress.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, will the Minister forgive me if I press him on a matter regarded by many of us as extremely urgent? Does he realise that my noble friend Lady Ewart-Biggs waited patiently for three months before asking another Question and that his Answer is precisely the same as the one he gave three months ago? How long does he feel that it takes for fabric to be examined and a plan to be prepared? What is the target date? What is the nature of the improvements planned meanwhile for the present building?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, first there had to be a discussion on precisely what was required and how it should be done. Then there was a finalised brief dealing with the preparation of a technical design for the builders and so on. Now we proceed to detailed working drawings, and eventually the matter has to go out to tender. It is easy to suppose that adjustments to a building like this can be undertaken without much planning. I can assure the noble Lord that the greatest possible care is being taken to make sure that we get these things right. The next step is to prepare the detailed working drawings as a basis for inviting tenders for the necessary work.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, I return to the Dispatch Box with an apology. What is the target date that the Government have for this project? And what is the nature of the improvements planned meanwhile to the present building?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, there is no target date as such because we are trying to do the job as speedily as we possible can. I go back to what I said earlier. It is important to get this right.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, will the Minister acknowledge that the prison staff at Holloway are doing their tasks exceedingly well in very difficult circumstances? Despite what the Minister has said concerning the improvements that are in hand, is it not a fact that ultimately the best solution is the fulfilment of the promise made some time ago for the creation of secure regional units in DHSS establishments?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I certainly agree that the staff at Holloway do an extremely good job. I agree that the situation there is difficult. As to regional secure units, that programme is growing quite fast. I believe that 10 of the 14 regions now have these regional secure units. I have no more up-to-date information than that.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, can the noble Lord the Minister—I return to this briefly—please indicate the nature of the improvements planned to the building at the moment? I have now asked that question three times.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, there are a number of things to be improved, such as the removal of the light fittings and having them recessed into the roof, and the replacement of certain facilities—basins and lavatories—and making them less destructible. There is work to be done connected with what one actually sees through the door of a cell so that prisoners can be properly observed, and various other things as well. The hope is that, at the end of the day, these cells can be taken out of commission, two at a time, so that work can be done on them. But it is important that proper structural considerations are taken into account.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, can the Minister say how many of these changes have already been carried out? Will he also say whether he has considered two improvements suggested by the Prison Officers' Association, one of them the removal of the whole unit to an interim place in the adapted accommodation in Block A? Can he say, too, whether resources have been provided to enable prisoners to participate in recreational activities during the interim period before the replacement unit has been built?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, the interim unit suggested by the Prison Officers' Association is not a practical alternative. Many of the problems that exist in the C1 Unit would be found in the unit that the noble Baroness is, I believe, thinking of. As to improvements carried out so far, the work has been done on, certainly, one, if not more than one, cell, with a view to improving visibility. It does not need to be assessed; it is not a question of simply jumping at it. 9 On the question of resources for recreational activities, I cannot give the noble Baroness an answer immediately, but I shall certainly let her know.

§ Lord Diamond
My Lords, will the Minister assure the House that the reason why this is moving at such a deplorably slow pace has nothing to do with the denial of the necessary funds to enable it to go faster?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right. It has nothing to do with funds at all. It has merely to do with the care and essential features of the work to be done in order to make sure, for example, that in taking down a wall to improve facilities, we are not doing structural damage to the prison.