Emergencies: Training of Volunteers (Hansard, 27 February 1986)

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Glenarthur)
My Lords, forty-three county level authorities have recruitment and/or training programmes, and there are already trained civil defence volunteers in all but one. Some of the training is relevant to both peacetime and war emergencies.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, may I thank my noble friend for that reply and ask him whether he is aware that in a few counties there are hundreds of volunteers who have been successfully trained and who are of great help in dealing with major peacetime disasters, but that in a great many of the authorities he has mentioned there are very few? Can he say what steps the Home Office is taking to assist those authorities which need help and encouragement to train more volunteers?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. I am aware of the numbers of volunteers who come forward for this training. The principal burden of volunteer training falls mainly on the experienced emergency planning staff of local authorities. The programmes which we encourage include community advisers, communications, rescue, scientific adviser and first-aid training. Several training exercises and exercise activities are carried out in conjunction with the voluntary aid societies as well. Additionally, there are places on suitable courses at the Civil Defence College which are offered on general and specialist courses to volunteers with appropriate experience.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, does not the Minister agree that these voluntary organisations, in peacetime as much as in war, are usually required in the great conurbations such as London, Merseyside, West Yorkshire and so on? Would it not be sensible to create an overall body which could bring all these smaller councils together so that the voluntary organisations could then fructify and be able to give first-class service? For example, an organisation which will not be in existence for much longer—the GLC—could be 1158 recreated. There could be similar bodies in Merseyside and all the great areas, and then it would be a quite simple matter for the Government to create what the noble Lord has asked for.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, the important point is that the Civil Defence (General Local Authority Functions) Regulations 1983 require counties and all those others concerned to undertake recruitment, organisation and training. I am sure there are many ways in which voluntary organisations can help in every area.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, can the noble Minister say how it is possible for people to volunteer to a local authority that declares itself to be a nuclear-free zone and says it will not have anything at all to do with civil defence? How can such authorities ask for volunteers?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, whether they declare themselves nuclear-free zones or not does not mean they do not have to comply with the civil defence regulations which I have just mentioned.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, is not the main difficulty that the public is not only confused but is in some ways being misled in regard to civil defence measures and those measures which are covered by this very intelligent Question, such as one would expect from the noble Lord, Lord Renton?
Is it not a fact that the chairman of the liaison committee set up by the Home Office, providing for civil defence liaison, feels that far too little is being granted for civil defence to be of any use? Is it not also a fact that there are other local authorities who feel that however much is granted by the Government there is nothing which can be done by way of civil defence against nuclear attack? If I may very quickly refer to the volunteers, is it not a fact that although it may be splendid to encourage volunteers there is no grant available under the civil defence regulations for the sort of accidents the noble Lord, Lord Renton, is talking about: namely, the sort of thing that can happen in the carrying of nuclear substances in trains? It is impossible and illegal for funds to be used on that basis.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, the noble Lord has asked a number of questions. I think that my noble friend Lord Renton's main point, or one of his points, was the use that can be made of the resources that are used now for civil defence work for peacetime emergencies. I hope that the Bill which is in another place at the moment will encourage authorities to adopt a flexible approach to the use of all their civil defence resources, including the networks of volunteers which many of them are successfully building up. I have seen them at work at first hand myself.

§ Lord Mottistone
My Lords, is not the position referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Mishcon, caused by those authorities who have taken this firm stand against civil defence and equated it completely with nuclear war, which is really not the point of it at all? We are talking about nuclear protection in peace and 1159 war, and if that is accepted the confusion surely is not there. Does not my noble friend agree that that is what we need to promote?

§ Lord Glenarthur
Yes, my Lords; I think my noble friend is quite right. It is also important for all of us to realise that if we did in fact tragically end up in a nuclear war there are many millions who would survive it; and that is why it is important to have these civil defence plans in effect.

Lord Hunt
My Lords, have the Government considered whether it would be appropriate to offer opportunities for training for the emergencies referred to in this Question by the noble Lord, Lord Renton, as an option in the new two-year YTS?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, that is an interesting point. I do not know the answer to that question, but I will find out and let the noble Lord know.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, to return for a moment only to one question: can the noble Lord inform the House whether there is any grant available for the type of service that the noble Lord, Lord Renton, was referring to; namely, covering volunteer services in the event of an accident or emergency happening in peacetime?

§ Lord Glenarthur
Not that I know of in quite that form, my Lords. However, the noble Lord will be aware that in another place there is a Bill in passage at the moment which seeks to provide a statutory basis for the use of local authorities' civil defence resources in responding to and planning for peacetime emergencies. So many of those who take part in the kinds of exercises in which I know my noble friend Lord Renton has a great interest include vast numbers of volunteers, and they make a splendid effort.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, is not the answer to the noble Lord, Lord Mishcon, that under the local government reorganisation Act 1972 local authorities have not only a power but a duty to deal with peacetime emergencies affecting their ratepayers and that in doing so they are fully entitled to use volunteers if they wish?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, my noble friend is quite right.

§ Baroness Fisher of Rednal
My Lords, will the noble Lord look at the unemployment regulations to make quite sure that those who are unemployed can volunteer?—because there is a limit to how many voluntary hours you can give per week if you are on the unemployed register. It might be that those regulations are deterring many people from doing this voluntary work.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I do not have with me information about what precisely those difficulties are, but I will certainly look into the point raised by the noble Baroness.