HL Deb 08 December 1986 vol 482 cc982-4

2.52 p.m.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will consider introducing legislation to authorise the police to clamp motor vehicles exhibiting a tax licence disc that is more than four weeks out of date, or none.

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, the possible wider use of wheelclamps is currently being examined by the committee chaired by Dr. Peter North which is reviewing road traffic law. The Government will consider the findings and recommendations of that committee in due course.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that helpful reply. Is he aware that the present procedure is slow, that the fines are derisory and that it is difficult to make the worst offenders pay the fines? Does not my noble friend agree that many of these vehicles are overdue for the MoT test and are not insured? In short, they are a menace to everyone using the roads.

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I certainly agree with the latter remarks of my noble friend. Regarding the level of fines, the courts have a responsibility to consider the circumstances of each case and, when passing sentence, the means of the offender. However, we agree that the present average of £47 for using or keeping an unlicensed vehicle on the road is inadequate as a punishment and a deterrent. Those views have been made plain on a number of occasions to the Magistrates' Association and the other court representative bodies. In addition to a fine, a convicted offender is required to pay any back duty found to be owing. However, we are currently considering whether further measures are needed to strengthen the penalties against evasion.

Lord Somers

My Lords, does not the noble Lord agree that the absence of an up-to-date licence may not be the fault of the owner of the car? With postal and other delays, such as occur with office work, it is quite possible that the owner may be entirely innocent. Therefore, is it not a little hard that the owner should be victimised in this way?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I am sure that the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Somers, is one of the aspects that Dr. North will be examining in committee. As I said, at the moment it is not the case that a car which is unlicensed would be clamped just for that reason.

The Earl of Halsbury

My Lords, is not clamping an over-heavy handed approach to these problems? It is a penalty against which, by its very nature, there can be no appeal. I have in mind a person who, the day before he ought to take out a licence, is suddenly removed to hospital with appendicitis and arrives home a fortnight later to find his vehicle clamped, without having received any notification that it has taken place. Will the noble Lord think very carefully as to whether clamping may not be too heavy handed a way of dealing with this particular complaint?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, my right honourable friend will certainly take the noble Earl's views into account when we receive the report of the committee chaired by Dr. North. We have, of course, not yet received it.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that it is for the kind of reason spoken of in the last two supplementary questions that I inserted the reference to "four weeks" in my original Question? That time can be extended if necessary. However, in the cardinal interests of safety, will the Government endeavour to adopt a realistic deterrent, because at present there is none?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I would not say that there is no deterrent for people driving cars which are unlicensed. Over the past few years we have put a great deal of effort into improving enforcement in this regard. For example, last year revenue from enforce ment exceeded £21 million, which is double the figure for 1982. This year an additional 75 posts have been deployed on enforcement. A record number of intensive campaigns have been arranged with the police, and new technology is being introduced further to improve efficiency and speed up action on enforcement; so this is certainly a matter which we take extremely seriously.

Lord Mishcon

My Lords, will the noble Lord be good enough to ask his right honourable friend to consider also the point of view that where the public is in danger and safety is at stake it is right to have a penalty, possibly like clamping, for obstruction, and so on? However, if the Government start using methods of that kind for collecting revenue, where do we stop?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I can only say that I will draw my right honourable friend's attention to the noble Lord's comments. As I have said, a review is currently taking place, but we have not yet received the recommendations in a report.

Lord Underhill

My Lords, there is widespread concern on this matter. Can the Minister give the House some indication as to when the committee is to report? Are we likely to have legislation in this Session? If not, is this not one important item which ought to be dealt with independently?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, the North Committee has just issued the consultation document soliciting views and, after considering these the committee hopes to report in the spring of 1987.

Forward to