Stansted Airport: Rail Link (Hansard, 24 April 1986)

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (The Earl of Caithness)
My Lords, we are currently considering the British Railways Board's submission for a rail link to Stansted Airport and hope to announce a decision shortly.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, is the Minister aware that that reply is quite disgraceful, and if his brief is no better it is unbelievable? Will the Minister please explain to the House why, if the British Government still wish to have a rail link to Stansted—which I doubt—and if British Rail still wishes to supply that link, why it has not pursued its application? Will the Minister further explain to the House why the debate which was adjourned until 6th March, because it was talked out, has since then been deferred to 13th March, 20th March, 27th March, 10th April, 17th April and today? Will the Minister tell the House whether the Government, as they have obviously run into trouble, are afraid of not getting their business through in another place; or have they plucked up their courage to take the matter forward tonight in the Commons?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the noble Baroness raises a number of points which she also raised on Monday, 21st April. My reply to her rather amusing, repetitive account about a Private Bill is that it is not a government Bill. The rail connection to Stansted is a matter for a Private Bill and it is common for it to be put down on the Order Paper weekly. A decision as to when it should be heard in another place is up to the Chairman of Ways and Means and not to the Government.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, is the Minister aware, first, that I am not amused, and, secondly, that I thought his reply the other night was a disgrace? Will he please understand that those of us who have worked for months on this matter resent this type of reply? Will he please address himself to what I have said? I have asked him why, if the Government wish this Motion to proceed and if British Rail wishes it to proceed, the matter has not been dealt with and 1272 has been deferred from 24th February up to today. Finally, can he say whether it will be deferred again tonight?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, it will not be heard tonight, because the Chairman of Ways and Means, not the Government, is the person responsible for selecting when the Second Reading should continue. As the noble Baroness will understand, the rail link has two parts to it. It has the investment part which we are considering, and it has the statutory part which has to go through both Houses of Parliament. That at the moment is in another place. A number of points were raised on the statutory part and these are being considered by British Rail with certain people in the locality and with the Government.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, the House is very kind, but do noble Lords realise that I am being tried beyond endurance? Will the Minister please address himself to one particular point? Why does British Rail not proceed with the application which it made to the House on 24th February?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, as I have certainly tried to explain to the noble Baroness and to the House, British Rail is pursuing its application. As I said, a number of points have been raised since Second Reading and at Second Reading in another place. These affect the investment appraisal and we are discussing it with British Rail. I think it is proceeding as quickly as possible.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, although my noble friend very properly declines to comment on procedures in another place for which he has no responsibility whatsoever, can he nonetheless tell your Lordships whether it is the Government's policy that it would be desirable to establish a rail link to the new airport?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that question. Yes, it is the Government's policy that a rail link is a desirable feature of the development of Stansted, but on the condition that it is economically viable in accordance with the usual terms.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the Chairman of Ways and Means in another place, as he will know, is the Deputy Speaker? If time is to be found by the Chairman of Ways and Means, what is needed is more than a wink and a nod. What is needed is a push from the government managers.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, as my noble friend Lord Boyd-Carpenter said, I am not conversant with procedure in another place, and therefore I shall not comment.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, will the Minister give an assurance that this matter is not being held up because of the question of the external financial limit? If that is the problem, will that be adjusted accordingly to allow this matter to proceed?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I can confirm to the House that we wish the matter to proceed as speedily as possible, and we are awaiting further discussions with British Rail.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, that is not an answer to the noble Lord's question. As the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, suggested, do the Government not understand that Stansted cannot go ahead in any viable way unless there is a rail fink? Will the Government give an assurance that they will put their weight behind British Rail having a proper rail link into Stansted Airport?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff, asks me a question which he asked me earlier in the year. The future of Stansted does not depend on a rail link. Similarly, there is no rail link to Heathrow at the moment.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, will the noble Earl allow me to ask him (on a point of fact) whether he is aware that I do not remember the first time I put down a Question on this matter, because it is rather a long time ago? But is it not correct that on that Question the Minister himself described the scheme that was put forward by British Rail as being financially viable? If it was financially viable then, why is it not financially viable now? But the Minister gave a very lukewarm reception to the question as to whether or not the Government wished to proceed with the rail link.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I can only repeat that the Government wish to proceed with the rail link, provided that it is economically viable within the terms. As a result of the Second Reading in another place, a number of points were raised which affect the appraisal and therefore we are still considering it.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, does the noble Earl not recognise that it is not just the viability of a rail link; it is the viability of an airport which is the important consideration? Does he also remember that there is a rail link to Heathrow by London Regional Transport? That was constructed irrespective of the point which he has raised in connection with the rail link to Stansted.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right to remind the House of the Underground rail link. The noble Baroness's Question referred to a British Rail link, so that is why I answered as I did.

§ Lord Annan
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that it is widely believed that the pressure groups, which failed to get their way when it was agreed that Stansted should be developed, particularly those in the North-west of England, are really trying to fight a desperate rearguard action against Stansted being a good airport? But may I go further and ask the noble Earl this question? Clearly, the Channel tunnel is bound to depend on a rail link. Are we going to be told in that case that it is purely a matter for British Rail to decide whether or not it is economically viable? Surely there are certain rail links which must be made available if the project is to be a success.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I think that we should all like Stansted to become the successful airport which it can become. It does not necessarily depend on having a rail link. It would be a tremendous advantage if it did, but the rail link has to be financially justified.

§ Lord Alport
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there are many people in Essex who do not want Stansted to be a successful airport at all?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I am aware that there are a number of people who do not want a lot of good things to happen.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the noble Lord who spoke previously is not from the North-West?

The Earl of Caithness
Yes, my Lords. Having had long discussions in this House with the noble Lord, Lord Alport, I realise that he comes from Essex.