Uganda-UK Relations (Hansard, 22 April 1986)

Viscount Buckmaster
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)
My Lords, there are many ties of friendship between the United Kingdom and Uganda. We wish Uganda well under its new government after so many years of suffering. We particularly welcome President Museveni's commitment to a stable and united Uganda with full respect for human rights. Following the visit to Uganda on 12th February by my honourable friend the Minister of State, Mrs. Chalker, we are discussing with the Government of Uganda UK assistance in support of these aims and the task of rebuilding the economy.

Viscount Buckmaster
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness the Minister for that constructive reply, which I think will be widely welcomed in Uganda. Nevertheless, does she agree that Her Majesty's Government's policy towards Uganda has been severely criticised in the past because of their failure fully to recognise and adequately to condemn the widespread killings and other violations of human rights which took place under the Amin and Obote regimes? Does she accept, therefore, that the time has now come for an entirely fresh start in Anglo-Ugandan relations—a new look—bearing in mind the fact that many Ugandans still hold us in high esteem?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I should like to assure the noble Viscount, Lord Buckmaster, that we have made known to successive Ugandan governments our concern about human rights. I do not think that we can accept his statement on that. We welcome President Museveni's commitment to improve Uganda's human rights record and the action that he has so far taken to punish those found responsible for violations. I hope that the Answer I have given to the noble Viscount's original Question will make clear the Government's commitment and policy towards the new government in Uganda.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, I welcome the general approach that the noble Baroness has outlined. Does she agree with me that the primary need in Uganda at present in order to secure stability is the reconstruction of the Civil Service and the police force? Will she be good enough to say what assistance Her Majesty's Government are giving in that direction, and will she say a word about the British training force? How many British soldiers are left in that force now?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I appreciate the point that the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, has raised. All police training ceased in July 1985, but the overseas police adviser visited Uganda last month to report on the need for further training and we are studying his recommendations. With regard to military aid, there are no Ugandans receiving military training in the United Kingdom at present but the future of the British military advisory training team is still under consideration. We have had discussions with the new Government about its future.

§ Lord McNair
My Lords, will the noble Baroness answer the question that the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, put about the Civil Service? Many reports suggest that the most urgent need is to reconstruct and remotivate the Civil Service. Is there anything we can do to help towards that?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I entirely take the pont that the noble Lord raised. We are in our future aid programme looking at a number of issues. On the point about the Civil Service, I think it right that I should write to the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, and I shall copy the letter to the noble Lord, Lord McNair. But we are certainly helping with the education system. We have this year planned to spend £7.5 million and the poor security in Uganda obliged us to suspend much of our aid programme up to the time of the coup in 1985.

Lord Paget of Northampton
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that Uganda is a beautiful country in which it has been particularly difficult to know which winners to back? Since the days of King Freddie I think we have had five consecutive losers. Maybe we should consult Colonel Gaddafi; that would perhaps give us at least one identified negative.

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that Uganda is a beautiful country, although I have not visited it. It has had a series of unhappy governments, with a lot of suffering for its people. We hope that things are now improved.

The Viscount of Falkland
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware of the demand in third world countries for the services of British based so-called security companies? Is she further aware of one company which at the end of the Obote regime was training pilots to fly low level helicopters that were ultimately used against the Museveni forces? Will she kindly say what control or influence the Government have over such private organisations which may be giving service to repressive regimes?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, as the noble Viscount will understand, if it is a private company it will be an arrangement between the company itself and the government of another country. That is not to say that our Government may not approve of its activities. That may well be the case. But the arrangements would be a matter for the two parties. I do not know what specifically the noble Viscount has in mind but that, generally speaking, would be our view.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, does the noble Baroness accept that there will be general support for her original Answer to the noble Viscount? Does she agree that the first actions of President Museveni, particularly in putting aside the ostentation of previous regimes, give good hope that the Museveni regime will lead Uganda back to prosperity and peace?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I am glad just for once to be able to agree with the noble Lord. It is still early to say what the policies of the new government will be, but there is no doubt that President Museveni has made an encouraging start and has included representatives of most of the major political and ethnic groups in his administration. He has also stressed the need for unity and reconciliation.

Viscount Buckmaster
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that no country in the Commonwealth has suffered more grievously than Uganda and that none more deeply deserves our enlightened concern?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I think we all understand the terrible sufferings of the people of Uganda. We must all hope that the current government are successful, particularly in dealing with the question of human rights.