§ 4.46 p.m.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, with the leave of the House I shall now repeat a Statement on British interests in the Lebanon and terrorism which is being made in another place by my honourable friend the Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, Mr. Renton. The Statement is as follows:
"The British Ambassador to Lebanon, Mr. John Gray, reported that three bodies were found near Beirut earlier this morning. Pinned to one of the bodies was a notice claiming that they had been executed as "CIA spies" by an organisation calling itself the Arab Fedayeen. Mr. Gray is urgently trying to arrange positive identification of the bodies. As the House will know, Mr. Aleck Collett, a British employee of UNRWA, was kidnapped in Lebanon on 25th March 1985. Two British citizens, Mr. Leigh Douglas and Mr. Philip Padfield, were kidnapped on 28th March this year and Mr. Brian Keenan of dual British-Irish nationality was kidnapped in Beirut on 11th April. The House will wish to express to the relatives of the kidnap victims their sympathy in the terrible anxiety they are now undergoing after all the acute stress to which they have already been subjected. Further information will of course be given to the next of kin as soon as this is received.
"Mr. Gray has also reported that another British citizen was kidnapped earlier this morning in West Beirut on his way to the airport. So far we have not received any claim for responsibility of his abduction. The ambassador is making inquiries with the authorities in Beirut and with community leaders.
"Last week, Mr. Gray repeated and reinforced his standing advice to British citizens against remaining in West Beirut and other areas in Lebanon where British citizens are at particular risk. The embassy have taken all reasonable security precautions to protect Mr. Gray and his small staff. We have asked him urgently for his further advice on staffing of the British Embassy and the safety of the remaining British community.
"My right honourable and learned friend held an urgent meeting with his European colleagues in Paris this morning to discuss terrorism. A further meeting will be held early next week to discuss implementation of the recommendations of experts.
"I understand that a suspected explosive device was found this morning at Terminal One of Heathrow Airport. The terminal was evacuated while the device was made safe. A woman was arrested by the police.
"This morning four rockets hit the ambassador's unoccupied residence in West Beirut. Mr. Gray was 780 not present at the time and he reports that there were no casualties, although some damage was caused to the building. No claim for responsibility has been made for this attack.
"The House will wish to pay tribute to Mr. Gray and his staff, who are doing their work in Lebanon with skill and courage in dangerous conditions."
§ My Lords, that concludes the Statement.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, we are grateful to the noble Baroness for repeating that Statement. We also send our sympathies to the families of those who have been killed in Lebanon. We condemn absolutely those who committed these terrible crimes. Would the noble Baroness not agree, however, that this is the first unhappy result of Britain's involvement in the Libyan operation? In the light of this, what steps are the Government taking to protect British citizens in the Middle East, especially the 5,000 British people in Libya itself? Have they been given advice by Her Majesty's Government as to what they should do in the present crisis? Can the noble Baroness say what is the significance of the two British warships that are reported to be sailing in the direction of Sicily? Can she say whether these are connected with the current crisis, and whether they are related to any possibility of evacuation?
Can the noble Baroness also say what is the latest position following the discovery of the bomb at Heathrow? There are reports that the airport is closed down completely. We should like to know whether this is true. On the EC meeting, can she say what the Foreign Ministers' attitude is to our part in this matter? Are they for it, or against it? Does she not now agree that the Government's actions have placed British citizens at home and abroad in unpredictable danger?
§ Lord KennetMy Lords, we on these Benches unconditionally condemn and abhor terrorist acts wherever they may be committed, whoever they may be committed against, and whoever they may be committed by. We join with the Labour Opposition and the Government in sending our sympathy to the next of kin of the victims, and our good wishes to British and United States diplomats all over the world and to British and United States subjects working abroad all over the world. The certainty that something like these events would ensue must have been present in the minds of the Government along with all the other factors when they took the decision to allow the American bombers to fly from British airfields. We have an opportunity tomorrow to discuss the wisdom or unwisdom of that decision. For my part, I do not believe that there is very much more that can properly be said today.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I should first like to thank the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, for his expression of sympathy, shared by all of us, to the relatives of those who have died in Beirut. I also join with the noble Lord, Lord Kennet, in his utter condemnation of terrorism wherever it may occur. Both noble Lords have asked me a general question as to whether or not the Statement, with its tragic news, is a consequence of the events earlier in the week and 781 particularly the use of the air bases in Britain by American planes. Our answer to this is one that is quite unequivocal. It is a war against terrorism—and war it is. It is harsh and it is uncompromising. It is not of our making, and the brutal and criminal disregard for human life of those who practise the barbaric trade of terrorism is something to be condemned. That is why, having exhausted all other forms at our disposition, we gave our support to the United States action against Libya. It is a terrible fact that there is this terrorism, but we cannot allow our hands to be tied by kidnappers or others who are threatening terrorist actions.
The noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, asked me what advice had been given to British citizens. I can confirm that our ambassador in Beirut recently reinforced his advice to British nationals in West Beirut that they should leave unless they had compelling reasons to remain. In the meantime, we have told Britons in Libya to stay calm, to keep their heads down, to restrict their movements and to keep in touch with the Italian embassy, which looks after British interests.
As regards the bomb at Heathrow, I understand that a suspected explosive device was detected this morning at Terminal 1. I cannot confirm the rumour that the noble Lord has heard. If I have any information about that I shall, of course, let him and the House know.
The noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, also asked me about the meeting of European Community Foreign Ministers which my right honourable friend attended in Paris this morning. My right honourable friend insisted upon the need for action, not just diplomatic initiatives, to counter state-directed terrorism. No official statement was released, but the Foreign Ministers will meet again in Luxembourg on Monday. We hope that on that occasion they will agree to the recommendations of the working group of experts on terrorism established in January. The House may be glad to know that the Dutch Foreign Minister, who is president, stated that no Foreign Minister had been aware of the imminence of the United States action against Libya during the previous meeting of Foreign Ministers in The Hague on Monday.
I think that this answers the questions that have been raised by the two noble Lords. What is important in this matter, I believe, is that we recognise that we cannot give in to the threats of terrorists. We must continue to do what we believe to be right.
§ Lord ParryMy Lords, in view of the noble Baroness's advice to British citizens in Libya to keep their heads down, can she give any specific information about employees of oil companies, many of whom originate from the oil refining areas of this country such as my own native area in Pembrokeshire? Can she say whether they are in situ in their jobs or whether they have been removed to the military camps that might be targets, as once threatened?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, as regards the British community in Libya, we have no reports of any British casualties. Mr. Dunnachie, who is in the British interests section in the Italian embassy in Tripoli, is in very close touch with British community leaders and 782 with his diplomatic colleagues, especially the Italians. Indeed, we are very grateful for Italian help that we have received. The noble Lord, Lord Parry, is right in saying that we have been unable to offer normal consular protection to the British community since May 1984. There are approximately 5,000 people working there. We understand that one British resident has been detained, but I cannot give any more information at this time. That is the latest information that I have on the position of British citizens in Libya. I can only confirm again the general advice that has been given to them.
§ Lord Harris of GreenwichMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that since the end of 1975 there have been regular meetings of European Community Ministers of the Interior? In view of the fact that the terrorist situation in Europe is now, quite clearly, escalating, is it proposed that there should be a special meeting of these Ministers in the near future, or not? If the noble Baroness is not able to answer that question this afternoon, perhaps she will do so tomorrow.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the noble Lord is right in saying that there are regular meetings. As the noble Lord said at the end of his remarks, we shall be having a debate tomorrow. I would prefer to leave any comment on this particular matter until tomorrow, when I think that it would be more helpful to set it in the context of everything else that is happening.
§ Lord Elwyn-JonesMy Lords, can the noble Baroness say how many Libyan nationals there are in this country? Is there any estimate of how many of them are dissidents and how many of them are supporters of this remarkable regime?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I do not have the exact number of Libyans in this country. As the noble and learned Lord will be aware, following the assassination of WPC Fletcher two years ago we did take a number of very tough measures against Libyans. We broke off diplomatic relations; we closed the People's Bureau; we imposed a strict visa regime that has had the effect of limiting the number of Libyans entering this country very severely; and we banned, of course, new defence contracts. These measures are of course still in force and are looked at very carefully.
§ 5 p.m.
§ Lord MayhewMy Lords, can the noble Baroness say—I do not think it was quite clear from her Statement—whether the perpetrators of these three vicious murders made any statement suggesting that they were a reprisal for the Tripoli raid?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, no. The noble Lord, Lord Mayhew, is quite right. All that we know is, as the Statement says, that pinned to one of the bodies was a notice claiming that they had been executed by an organisation calling itself the Arab Fedayeen.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, the noble Baroness made a rather curious statement during her answer to a supplementary question. She quoted the Dutch 783 Foreign Minister as saying that none of the Foreign Ministers meeting on Monday knew of the American decision. Yet yesterday the Prime Minister in her speech stated that she had consulted with all the Ministers concerned before taking the decision to allow the F-111s to leave this country. Can the noble Baroness tell us this? Did Sir Geoffrey Howe, the Foreign Minister, know? Had he been consulted by the Prime Minister? Did he know that the permission had been given to the Americans to use bases in this country on Monday afternoon, or did he not know?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Hatch, has misunderstood what I said in answering an earlier question. I shall re-read it in order that there shall be no mistake about it. I said that the Dutch Foreign Minister stated that no Foreign Minister—that is at the European Community Foreign Ministers' meeting in Paris—had been aware of the imminence of the United States action against Libya during the previous meeting of Foreign Ministers in The Hague on Monday. The point that I was making, which is a very important point, is that there were no recriminations over this matter.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, I am sorry, but that does not answer my question. Of course I understood what was said in the Statement. But how did the Dutch Foreign Minister know what was in Sir Geoffrey Howe's mind? What we ought to be told is whether Sir Geoffrey Howe did know—as is implied in the Prime Minister's Statement yesterday—that the decision had been taken when he was in discussions with his fellow Foreign Ministers on Monday and when he signed the communiqué asking for restraint on all sides.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I think that when the noble Lord, Lord Hatch, comes to read Hansard he will see that I answered his original question. He has now raised a subsidiary question about this. I can only say that the Foreign Secretary, Sir Geoffrey Howe, for his part had no confirmation of the President's decision to authorise the raids that night—that is to say on Monday night—until his return to London and the meeting with the Prime Minister. There is therefore no question of the Foreign Secretary having negotiated in bad faith the text of The Hague statement. That of course is the point that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister made in the debate yesterday afternoon. There is no difference.
§ Baroness DavidMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness whether the Government are giving any advice to British citizens about travelling to other parts of the Middle East besides the Lebanon and Libya?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, we have not issued any official advice about travelling to other parts of the Middle East. We have only given advice quite specifically both about the Lebanon and about Libya.
§ Lord Stewart of FulhamMy Lords, my noble friend the Leader of the Opposition in this House suggested that there was a connection between these crimes that have recently been committed against British subjects 784 and the use of British bases. I notice that in her reply the noble Baroness did not deny that. She took her stand rather on the proposition that events of this kind must be expected in what had become a war.
If the noble Baroness is right, does not that mean that the action taken by the United States Government—and with our help—will be one item in the chain of a bloody tit-for-tat? Where do we go from there?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I do not think that that is the conclusion which can be drawn from what I have said. I shall of course have a look again at what I have said and indeed at what the noble Lord, Lord Stewart, has said. The point I was making—and it is a very serious point—is that we ourselves as a country have suffered from terrorism. So of course have the United States, and very many other countries. It is a war in that sense which is being perpetrated. We did not believe, and we do not believe, tragic and terrible as it is that three people should have died, that we could be held, as it were, to ransom by kidnappers and terrorists in fighting this war. We must continue to do what we believe to be right. After all, there have been many instances—I could give the noble Lord a list of them—of terrorist activities and of the thousands of people who have died as a consequence.
§ Lord Howie of TroonMy Lords, I wonder whether the noble Baroness would clear up possibly a fairly minor confusion which arises in my mind from her Statement. As your Lordships will recall, the Statement combined two episodes; one was a series of three brutal murders in the Lebanon; and the other was a bomb episode at Heathrow. Does combining these two episodes in the one Statement mean that there is any connection between them apart from the general connection of terrorism as a whole?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, no. Nor did I suggest that there was any connection between them. But the Government felt it was right that the House should have all the information about all these various activities which happen to have taken place.
Lord Home of the HirselMy Lords, can my noble friend remind the House of this: am I not right in thinking that the hostages were kidnapped almost a month ago?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, yes. Two citizens were kidnapped on 24th March this year, and one—Mr. Keenan, who is of dual British-Irish nationality—was kidnapped on 11th April. My noble friend Lord Home is therefore quite right in saying that the kidnapping took place long before the events of last Monday.
§ Lord ChalfontMy Lords, is the Minister aware that some of us are rather surprised and concerned at the expressions which seem to be very prevalent at the moment that this country has been dragged into the "front line" in this war? Would she not agree that we have been in the front line for many years in this war? Would she not also agree, and would she accept from me, that in this war between terrorism and the forces of civilisation many of us would not wish to be anywhere else but in the front line?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I would agree with the noble Lord, Lord Chalfont, in saying that we have been in the front line of this war for some time and indeed a list of terrorist activities by Libyans going back to 1979 makes this quite clear. It is a terrible war but I think in principle that it is quite right that we should take a stand in this country and a lead with other countries in Europe in trying to get international co-operation to stamp it out.