§ 3.13 p.m.
§ Lord MellishMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will allot special funds to the Housing Corporation to be given to housing associations to build housing for rent in London docklands.
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, the three docklands boroughs—Newham, Southwark, and Tower Hamlets—are among the 80 housing stress areas in which the Housing Corporation are concentrating new fair rent approvals for their 1986–87 programme. In 1985–86 the Housing Corporation approved new fair rent and low cost home ownership schemes with a value of over £13½ million in the docklands area of these boroughs. We have no proposals at present to allocate further special funds to the Housing Corporation for new fair rent schemes in docklands.
§ Lord MellishMy Lords, is the Minister aware that under the Act of Parliament which set up the corporation it is not allowed to build houses except 755 those for sale? It has always been the desire of the corporation that there should be housing for rent for that vast element of the population which cannot afford to buy a house but wishes to rent. I have some experience, but as I understand it the only people interested in building houses are the housing associations, which are very reputable. There are at least ten sites available to be built on at this time, but unfortunately, we are told, the Housing Corporation does not have the funds to give to them. What else can I do but put down a Question to ask the Minister?
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, I am not sure that this is quite correct. The total population of the eight square miles of the London Dockland Development Corporation's area is 40,000. Approximately 75 per cent. of those 40,000 people live in council accommodation, 15 per cent. are owner-occupiers and the remaining 10 per cent. have other forms of tenure. On the fair rent approvals in the £13½ million that I have mentioned, this amounts to £8.2 million. Money is also given by the individual boroughs, and they are also building houses themselves.
§ Lord MellishMy Lords, with great respect to the Minister he does not seem to understand the question. It is not a question of where people are living now. The fact is that we are unable to build housing for rent, and there is a demand for that. I am simply saying to the Minister that the only way that money can be obtained is through the Housing Corporation, which has nothing to do with us. I do wish the Minister would not be naive, because the local councils, such as Southwark, could build houses tomorrow on land made available, but because of their political prejudice against us refuse to do so. If the Minister does not know that story it is about time he did. Therefore, all I know is that a lot of people—
§ Lord MellishI am therefore asking the Minister whether he will help the housing associations to overcome this very serious problem, my Lords.
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, I have to say, as I did in my original Answer, that £13½ million was given by the Housing Corporation to housing associations in docklands for the sort of schemes that the noble Lord suggests. I fully understand, and he has been at pains to point out, the political situation in Southwark, but it is interesting to note that the comparison for extra housing association money in the three London boroughs concerned has risen from £2.2 million in 1984–85 to £4.9 million in 1985–86.
§ Lord Dean of BeswickMy Lords, while not demurring for one moment from the request made by my noble friend Lord Mellish for additional funding for housing in London docklands, which would be a good investment, is the Minister not aware—he must be aware—that some of the areas of highest housing deprivation in the country are in the big cities other than London? Is it not a fact that cities such as Manchester, which submitted proposals for a £90 million spending plus in the current year, received only one-third of the allocation it applied for? I 756 understand that a similar situation applied in other cities, such as Leeds, Sheffield and Liverpool, and in other London boroughs not concentrated round the dockland area. Will the Minister give an undertaking that if any additional funds are to be made available for public sector housing these areas of high priority will receive the utmost consideration?
§ Lord SkelmersdaleYes, my Lords, I can willingly give that undertaking. This is why the Government have asked the Housing Corporation to identify and to concentrate resources on the areas of particularly high need, including Manchester, parts of Bristol and elsewhere in the country. It has produced a list of 80 stress areas, which I have mentioned. It is right that within the resources available the areas to concentrate on should be those where the needs are greatest.
§ Baroness DavidMy Lords, is it not a fact that Sir Hugh Cubitt, the director of the Housing Corporation, in a report in July, complained that programmes for housing for the most direly in need were desperately under-funded; and surely it is up to the Government to produce more funds for the Housing Corporation when it has been made quite clear in a great many reports how disastrous the housing situation is?
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, it is true that the Housing Corporation's preferred option in its first corporate plan was to double the current programme, but it is right to point out that this would cost £1,150 million a year, and, as I said in my Answer to the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, on 4th March last, this has to be done within our general and very successful economic policies.