HL Deb 08 April 1986 vol 473 cc91-7

3.39 p.m.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Northern Ireland Office (Lord Lyell)

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement being made in another place by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. The Statement is as follows:

"In the last month there have been 138 attacks on off-duty members of the RUC and RUC Reserve and their homes and families. The vast majority have taken place in predominantly Protestant areas. The whole House will wish to join me in condemning utterly these cowardly and disgraceful attacks on the men and women of the Royal Ulster Constabulary who have given such loyal and courageous service to defend the Province against terrorism and to uphold law and order.

"The chief constable, with the full support of the Police Authority for Northern Ireland and of the Superintendents Association and the Police Federation, has put arrangements in hand to provide quick and effective assistance to police officers and their families who are subject to attack or other forms of intimidation. Extra patrols are being mounted in vulnerable areas and steps have been taken to provide suitable alternative accommodation for those unfortunate enough to have to move from their homes. In addition, the police are making strenuous efforts to bring the people responsible for this criminal behaviour to justice, and a considerable number have already been charged with serious offences associated with it.

"I welcome the fact that the churches and the more responsible political leaders have condemned without any qualification these outrages.

"I look to the whole community to join together to defeat these acts of terrorism against its own police force and to give every possible support to bring those responsible to justice."

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

Lord Prys-Davies

My Lords, in their unqualified and utter condemnation of the death and destruction wrought in Northern Ireland over the last few weeks and of the attacks on 138 RUC homes the Government can be confident that they have behind them the wholehearted support of the Opposition. We hope that the condemnation will also be endorsed by the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland and in the Unionist tradition in particular. We extend our sympathy to those officers of the RUC and their families who have suffered injury and loss. We hope that this Statement will bring some comfort to the officers who are now being subjected to the full pressure of malicious and divisive propaganda, violence and threats of violence.

I have three or four specific questions which I should like to put to the Minister. First, the chief constable of the RUC is reported as being satisfied that there is "a very sinister hand" behind the attacks on the policemen's homes. Those were his words. Do the Government have good grounds for accepting the chief constable's assessment of that evidence?

Secondly, is the Minister able to tell the House how many RUC officers have sought transfer to a police force on the mainland since the treaty was signed and how many of those applications for transfer have been successful? If an application is not successful, is there an established machinery to enable an officer to appeal against the decision?

Thirdly, will the Minister assure the House that where an officer is injured in the course of his duties, or where an officer's property is damaged or destroyed, his claim for compensation can be, or is, fully and quickly settled?

Finally, if I may go a little wide of the Answer, will the Government continue to make it clear to Ulster politicians of both traditions that in a democracy there can be no room for any person who engages in violence? Can the Minister go further? Has he grounds for believing that all responsible politicians in the Unionist tradition who have not already dissociated themselves from attacks on RUC homes will now do so?

3.45 p.m.

Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge

My Lords, I should like to endorse every word my noble friend on the Labour Front Bench has said. I think that this should be, and I ask the Government that they should make it, a watershed in the aftermath of the Irish agreement; so much and no more.

This is damage being done to a police force that the minority have always alleged was partisan to the majority. The majority have always denied this and said, "Of course the police force is not partisan; the Nationalists are simply making a fuss about nothing". When the RUC is showing in a number of cases that it is far from partisan, such is the—I was going to say ignominy—of the majority that they are now raiding policemen's homes in order to make them partisan. This is a disgraceful situation and such an upset that everybody deplores it and one must look at it from that point of view.

Both the noble Lord the Minister and my noble friend on the Labour Front Bench talked about unqualified dissociation of political leaders from the violence. I do not know whether other noble Lords saw a television programme last night with a gentleman called Robinson, I think, who is the Number 2 to Mr. Paisley. His dissociation from the violence was, in my opinion, totally qualified. What he said, if I remember rightly—and I may have got it wrong because I was boiling at the time—was that if you use the sort of violence implied by coming to an agreement with the South, this would naturally provoke counter violence. That is not an unqualified dissociation and I think we ought to insist on one. I should like to see that followed up.

One further point: the chief constable, as has been mentioned, has suggested that there is a power behind this. There have always been individuals who were the powers behind these things. In my day everybody knew exactly who they were; I am sure the chief constable knows exactly who they are and I think they ought to be arrested immediately, without evidence for the moment. This is as far as the rebellion should be allowed to go, in my opinion, and I think the whole country will be behind the Prime Minister and the Government if they do whatever is necessary to stop this. God knows what that may be.

Lord Lyell

My Lords, we are particularly grateful for the support which has been given by the noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies, and the noble Lord, Lord Donaldson. Above all, on a personal basis, I should like to add my tribute to the brave men and women of the Royal Ulster Constabulary.

The noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies, asked first about the comments of the chief constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, as indeed did the noble Lord, Lord Donaldson. We believe that the chief constable has good grounds for making the statement that he did yesterday. I am sure your Lordships will accept that it would not be for me to go further into the sources for the chief constable's statement, since I would not wish to comment further and I think that further disclosure would not be helpful to the chief constable in his difficult job.

The noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies, also asked about transfers from the Royal Ulster Constabulary. First of all, Royal Ulster Constabulary personnel do not apply for transfers as such. I understand the procedure is that any person wishing to leave applies to the police force which he wishes to join and, if accepted, would then resign from the Royal Ulster Constabulary. I understand that there has been no noticeable difference from the normal pattern in either transfers to other police forces or in resignations since the signing of the agreement, or indeed recently.

As for appeals, which the noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies, asked me about, I am not aware of any particular machinery, but I think this is covered by the normal disciplinary machinery of the Royal Ulster Constabulary. If there is further detailed information that I can obtain for the noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies, perhaps I may communicate with him in writing. I do not have it in front of me.

The noble Lord also asked about assistance for personal injury and for damage, and any compensation. I am advised that there is a statutory compensation scheme for criminal damage to persons for injuries. That scheme applies to all members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary as it does to all other members of the community in Northern Ireland. So far as I am aware, it is being operated expeditiously and swiftly.

The noble Lord asked about support from other politicians in Northern Ireland. I think the whole House will agree that the events which I have disclosed this afternoon underline the need to have talks between politicians in Northern Ireland and the Government as soon as possible, for violence and intimidation make it far more difficult to start this particular process.

The agreement was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Donaldson, and by the noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies. I reiterate once again that the Government will not suspend the agreement but we are ready to discuss all issues likely to be raised by the Unionists, and that includes devolution.

We are very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Donaldson, for his tributes to the Royal Ulster Constabulary. I should reiterate that the Government, and above all the people of Northern Ireland, have good reason to be proud of the proven high professional standards and above all the devotion to duty of the Royal Ulster Constabulary. I use those words advisedly, but the shameful efforts of those who call themselves loyalists will not deter the RUC from doing their duty and evenhandedly upholding the law. I remind your Lordships that over 220 members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, men and women, have laid down their lives since the beginning of the troubles, as we call them, in 1969. I believe that in the region of 4,000 have been injured, some very seriously, as your Lordships will be aware.

The noble Lord, Lord Donaldson, was concerned about the television programme last night. I am afraid that I did not see it. I have no information about the Government's view on it, but the noble Lord and your Lordships will be able to draw your own conclusions from the views that were expressed by sundry persons who appeared on television.

Lord Hunt

My Lords, the Royal Ulster Constabulary, which hardly needs my additional words of praise and admiration for its present evidence of courage and loyalty, is undergoing a very difficult time. Everybody in your Lordships' House is also aware of the degree to which the Ulster Defence Regiment, which acts in close support of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, has suffered at the hands of the IRA over the whole period of time. Can the Minister give the House any information as to whether in the current very serious situation there have been any attacks on the persons and homes of members of the Ulster Defence Regiment? In this situation, which is so serious, can he assure the House of the loyalty and steadfastness of the Ulster Defence Regiment?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, I think that the Royal Ulster Constabulary will be particularly grateful for the tribute paid by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt. I shall see that his words are noted by everybody in Northern Ireland and by the Royal Ulster Constabulary. As your Lordships will know, he has a unique connection with Northern Ireland.

I too pay my unreserved tribute to the brave men and women of the Ulster Defence Regiment in all that they do. To my knowledge, so far there have been no attacks, though I heard one rumour just before I came into your Lordships' House within the past hour that there had been an attack upon a member of the Ulster Defence Regiment; but I am afraid that I have no further knowledge of that. Once again, I pay my tribute to these brave men and women.

Lord Blease

My Lords, I should like to have the opportunity to join the Minister, the noble Lords, Lord Prys-Davies and Lord Donaldson, and other noble Lords in welcoming and warmly supporting the Statement made by the Secretary of State in another place about the actions of Government in support of the members of the RUC. I also welcome recent statements by the RUC chief constable, Sir John Hermon, in support of the dedicated and impartial upholding of the law by all levels of RUC personnel. I wish to ask the Minister whether he can confirm that the unit that has been established is adequately staffed and financed to meet the housing and other essential needs of RUC personnel and their families, including the reserve and part-time members of the RUC who have suffered such disgraceful criminal attacks in these recent episodes.

May I conclude by saying that there are dangerous undercurrents in force in Northern Ireland? The police ought to be aware of the strength and whereabouts of these undercurrents. I suggest that perhaps the best way we could help from this House is to use our influence and for the Government to give every support to members of the public and to members of all the security services by ensuring that they have help and goodwill to assist them in their efforts to uphold law and order impartially. I welcome what the Minister has said: that moves towards constitutional political measures and dialogue ought to be fostered and promoted at all levels in Northern Ireland rather than allow this situation to drift into further and total anarchy and bloodshed in the Province. I see that as a dangerous situation that presents itself at this time.

Lord Lyell

My Lords, we are grateful for the thoughts and good wishes of the noble Lord, Lord Blease. I reiterate what the chief constable has said. We pay tribute to the Royal Ulster Constabulary, who carry out their duties, as the noble Lord put it, in a dedicated way. He and I both know how very dedicated they are and how professionally they do their difficult job. They also do it impartially.

On the point about the adequate staffing of support mechanisms and support personnel for the Royal Ulster Constabulary, I understand that the chief constable and the Royal Ulster Constabulary are satisfied that they are obtaining all forms of adequate support in these difficult times. I understand that the varying forms of support, the personnel, the finance and other forms of support, are indeed adequate and are doing what is needed at the moment.

As for the sinister and unpleasant undercurrents to which the noble Lord referred, all of us use all the influence that we have in your Lordships' House and elsewhere to try to persuade politicians, above all from Northern Ireland, that any progress is through talks and through the normal political process. I pay a personal tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Blease. His influence in Northern Ireland is very welcome. We are all very grateful for everything that he has been able to do. I reiterate that the only way forward is for politicians from Northern Ireland to have talks with the Government as soon as possible.

I hope your Lordships will forgive me if I reiterate one point to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, who asked me about the Ulster Defence Regiment. I have had it confirmed that one member of the Ulster Defence Regiment was killed this afternoon. I understand that it happened in the region of Killeter, which, as the noble Lord will know, is in the far west of County Tyrone. That is all the information I have, but I wish to pay my tribute to these brave men and women and to express my sorrow at this dreadful event.

Lord Fitt

My Lords, I first apologise for not having heard the Minister's Statement, as I was urgently engaged otherwise. I associate myself with the remarks that were made in relation to the RUC. As one who suffered in much the same way as at present the RUC is suffering, having for 11 years been stoned and petrol-bombed in my home, I fully understand and sympathise with the awful position in which they find themselves. Throughout my political life I have condemned members of the minority community for attacking and killing members of the RUC, and in even more forceful terms I level my criticism at the majority community; that is, allegedly the loyalist community in Northern Ireland.

It is not sufficient for one political group or persuasion in Northern Ireland to compliment the RUC when it appears to be acting in the interests of that community but to criticise it and to set the atmosphere when it appears to be acting in the interests of the other. I see the RUC as acting in full support of the whole community in Northern Ireland, both the majority and the minority. In calling upon politicians to condemn those who were responsible for this attack we are appealing not only to loyalist politicians but to the minority representatives as well. It is only with the concerted action of all the elected representatives that we can hope to bring this terrible trend to an end.

Lord Lyell

My Lords, once again I shall see that the noble Lord's tributes to the Royal Ulster Constabulary are passed on. All of us admire the noble Lord for his courageous efforts in his political life in West Belfast as he has described them, somewhat humbly, in your Lordships' House. All of us know what he had to put up with. We shall see that his words of commendation are passed on to the chief constable.

Once again there comes forcibly from the noble Lord the need for every single person in Northern Ireland to support the Royal Ulster Constabulary in all that it does to enforce the rule of law for everybody's benefit in Northern Ireland quite impartially. I am sure that his plea and comments will be noted. We shall do everything we can to see that his words are brought to the notice of everyone in Northern Ireland, particularly to those sections of the population to whom he was referring; we know to whom he was referring. We shall see that the noble Lord's words go in that direction.