HL Deb 28 October 1985 vol 467 cc1382-3

2.45 p.m.

Baroness David

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what they intend to do to comply with the ruling of the European Court of Human Rights in the Campbell and Cosans case.

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are considering the appropriate course of action to take following the adjournment of the Report stage of the Education (Corporal Punishment) Bill in your Lordships' House on 4th July.

Baroness David

My Lords, that is not a very satisfactory reply as four months have elapsed since the decision of this House. Will the Minister confirm that the Government are still intending to meet their international treaty obligations, which the Secretary for Education said was the case when he introduced the corporal punishment Bill in January of this year? While I understand that nobody knows exactly what is happening, will the Minister say further whether any guidance is being given to the local education authorities or teachers, who are in a very difficult and unsatisfactory situation as matters stand at the moment?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, no decision has yet been taken. This is a complicated issue which inevitably will take a little time to resolve. An announcement will be made as soon as the Government reach a conclusion, but I can give the noble Baroness the undertaking that in this country we honour our international treaty obligations, and we shall honour this one.

Lord Broxbourne

My Lords, would it not be better if cases arising from the alleged contravention of those rights which we are very properly committed to respect by reason of our treaty adherence to the European Convention on Human Rights could be heard at first instance by our own judges in our own courts? If, in the event, legislation to achieve this end is initiated in the forthcoming Session, can reliance be placed on the support of the noble Earl and his distinguished colleagues on the Front Bench? I say nothing specifically in regard to the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack, because I apprehend that for him no special exhortation is needed.

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I am grateful for that question from my noble friend. I shall draw it to the attention of my right honourable friend.

Lord Boothby

My Lords, can the noble Earl give us a hint of the likely decision of the Government? We are very interested, and it has been quite a long time since the amendment was passed.

The Earl of Swinton

No, my Lords.

Lord Elwyn-Jones

My Lords, is the noble Earl in a position to say whether corporal punishment has been suspended in the meantime?

The Earl of Swinton

No, my Lords.

Baroness Fisher of Rednal

My Lords, may we ask the noble Earl to make quite sure that his honourable friend is aware of the decision that was made in this House after a long debate upon the issue? Will he ask the Government to consider the point of view expressed in this House so that it becomes part of the legislation?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I am absolutely certain that my right honourable friend read that debate with great interest and that he has taken note of what was said in your Lordships' House.

Baroness David

My Lords, is the Minister aware that there is one boy being kept out of school in Warwickshire at this moment because his mother objects to him being caned and the headmaster will not have him back until he is willing to be caned; and that this is the sort of situation that could be going on all over the country, with education being disrupted while the Government are being so backward in coming forward with some sensible legislation?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, the whole point of this Bill, which was defeated in this House, was to give parents the right to choose whether or not they wanted their children caned, so I do not think that the Government can be considered dilatory in that regard. We have no information about this particular matter apart from what was reported in the press. Suspension from school as such is not in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights. The discipline of a school is primarily a matter for head teachers and for governing bodies. The local education authority concerned is no doubt aware of its general duty to provide education for this boy.