Tobacco: Advertising and Sponsorship (Hansard, 22 October 1985)

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, in accordance with previous practice both Houses of Parliament will be informed of the terms of the new voluntary agreements when they have been agreed.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, may I first most warmly congratulate the noble Baroness on her first appearance at the Dispatch Box, and also may I say what a pleasure it is that I am putting this Question to her. Is she aware that I would not have been here—I have come from hospital to put this Question—had not a ward colleague died yesterday morning of lung cancer due directly to cigarette smoking? In view of the fact that over the last few weeks 53 deaths at Bradford football club were due to smoking; that there has been an increase in smoking by children; that there is the absurd ruling that in spite of his condition an asthmatic taxi driver must take someone who is smoking; and, finally, that there is a massive increase in sponsorship by tobacco companies on television, does she not feel, and does the Secretary of State not feel, that both Houses have a right not just to be informed of a decision that has been taken but to be consulted about the decision on such a vital question?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord, Lord Ennals, for his kind remarks and to say how glad I am that he is able to be here to put the Question. I am profoundly sorry about the cases which he has quoted, but the Government believe that the system of voluntary agreements which are worked out in confidence with the tobacco industry are the most effective and flexible methods of controlling this area. This is of course in accordance with previous practice by successive Governments.

§ Lord Broxbourne
My Lords, I join in the congratulations to my noble friend on her well-deserved promotion. I should like to ask her whether she would not agree that, on a matter so vital to the health and 954 wellbeing of the people of this country, Parliament may well have a valuable contribution to make and should therefore be consulted before the agreement is entered into, so that it may make that contribution. Looking at the realities of the matter, is it not a fact that an appearance in the background of a sponsored event may be far more commercially valuable than an overt advertisement placed on the same screen?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, the custom of agreeing these voluntary agreements in privacy and in confidentiality has been, as I said, carried out by successive Governments. I feel sure that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State will be well aware of the questions which have been raised in this House, of the debate which took place in May this year, and that your Lordships' opinions will have been noted in this respect. In regard to sponsored events, the Government are satisfied that the voluntary agreement has worked well. It offers effective and appropriate means of control and allows the industry to make a significant contribution to sport.

§ Lord Leatherland
My Lords, does the noble Baroness not think that it would be better for the Government to bring in a Bill to abolish smoking altogether? I abolished it in my own case 50 years ago. It was quite easy.

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, I believe that the noble Lord's question proves the point. His abandonment of smoking was voluntary. The Government continue to believe that the most effective method of control is by way of voluntary agreement.

§ Lord Brougham and Vaux
My Lords, I too congratulate my noble friend on her promotion. I should like to ask her what evidence there is of a decline in smoking as a result of this voluntary agreement.

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, there is evidence of improvement. The latest general household survey figures, based on information collected in 1984, showed a further fall to 34 per cent. in the proportion of adult smokers. Since 1972, when the first voluntary agreement was concluded, smoking prevalence among men has declined by almost one-third and among women by about one-fifth. I think that the figures speak for themselves in demonstrating what can be achieved by these means.

§ Lord Airedale
My Lords, what do the Government say about the question posed in this week's Radio Times about a programme relating to the voluntary codes, where the question is asked: would any other killer of 100,000 people a year be dealt with so lightly?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, I am not aware of this particular programme, but I believe that the controls continue to be strengthened all the time and that therefore progress is being made in this direction.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that before coming to the House some of us, not having seen who would be answering, were prepared to be rather nasty about this? On seeing how things stand, we still feel that we should like the noble 955 Baroness to say that the utmost pressure will be kept up to make sure that smoking is reduced, whether voluntarily or involuntarily, and that this pressure will be absolute, continuous and heavy.

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, I believe that your Lordships' House is conducting a very special case in this matter. As I have said, I shall certainly make sure that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is well aware of the views of your Lordships.

§ Lord Rea
My Lords, will the noble Baroness let the House know whether in matters like this, which affect tobacco sales and advertising, the Government are influenced at all by the £5 billion which the Exchequer gains from tobacco taxation? Perhaps more pointedly, are they also influenced by the saving which the DHSS achieves by the non-payment of the £1 billion or so in pensions which would otherwise have been paid to the 100,000 people who die every year from smoking-related diseases?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, I believe that both the Government and the tobacco industry are well aware of these figures, and I feel sure that note is taken of them.

§ Lord Henderson of Brompton
My Lords, if the Government do not consult both Houses of Parliament before reaching a voluntary agreement with the tobacco industry about sponsorship and advertising, will they at least consult some friendly expert in public relations, such as Saatchi and Saatchi, so that they are not bamboozled and do not have the wool pulled over their eyes by the tobacco industry, as happened on the last occasion? I ask this because, as the noble Lord, Lord Broxbourne, rightly said, indirect advertising on television seems to have had even more effect than direct advertising would have had.

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, I feel that I cannot give that assurance. However, the Government are and have been happy to receive views from individuals or bodies on issues concerning the agreement. The department has meetings with representatives of the BMA, the Health Education Council and other bodies which are concerned in this.

§ Lord Alexander of Potterhill
My Lords, can the Minister tell us whether, in all the statistics which have been produced relating to tobacco, there has been any attempt to assess the effect of carbon monoxide poisoning, particularly in urban communities? That factor would seem to explain the significant difference between the effect of smoking in the countryside and the effect of smoking in urban areas.

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, I agree that this is a very important contributory factor to the sad consequences of lung cancer. I shall certainly do what I can to make sure that in any surveys or any future consideration of the problem these factors are drawn out. If there is any way in which I can help the noble Lord subsequently, I shall be happy to try to do so.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, bearing in mind that there has been a tremendous change in public opinion concerning actions that the Government might and should take, and an increased awareness, and in the light of the concern that has come from all sides of the House about the need for the House to be consulted, will the noble Baroness draw this to the attention of the Secretary of State and will the Leader of the House recognise that there is very great concern that this issue should be discussed by both Houses before a decision is taken?

§ The Lord President of the Council (Viscount Whitelaw)
My Lords, as that question was addressed to me I shall simply say that, as far as this House is concerned, of course I am willing to discuss through the usual channels whether such a debate would help and when it could be taken. In regard to the other House, as my noble friend has said, she will inform the Secretary of State. I shall as well take it on myself to speak to the Secretary of State and to the other House as to what they might do in the matter.