§ 3.1 p.m.
§ Lord Boyd-CarpenterMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what is the total cost of the National Coal Board to public funds by way of investment, subsidy or otherwise in the current year.
§ The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Lord Gray of Contin)My Lords, The Government have made provision in supply estimates for total grants to the National Coal Board and expenditure under the redundant mineworkers payments scheme during 1985–86 amounting to £1,609 million. The board's external financing limit for the year, which comprises grants paid to the board and changes in the board's level of indebtedness, was set in July at £929 million, including the funding of the board's approved investment programme of £723 million.
§ Lord Boyd-CarpenterMy Lords, may I thank my noble friend for those impressive, if depressing, figures? Can he indicate to the House whether, in the light of the lesser demand that appears to be developing for coal, it is intended to reduce that figure in future years?
§ Lord Gray of ContinMy Lords, no decisions have so far been taken for the future. However, with regard to the mineworkers' redundancy payments scheme, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Energy has indicated that when this scheme runs out in March 1986 he will present proposals for a replacement scheme to the House.
§ Lord RentonMy Lords, can my noble friend say whether the figures he has given for the current year include any contribution towards the costs of last year's coal strike, which are known to be considerable, or whether they were all covered during the previous year?
§ Lord Gray of ContinMy Lords, I can answer my noble friend on that point. The coal industry made extraordinary losses in 1984–85 requiring Government support of £2.5 billion, within which deficit grant accounted for nearly £2,225 million.
§ Lord JacquesMy Lords, is that not the cost of confrontation? Could we not have saved the taxpayer some money if there had been a modicum of tact and a little conciliation?
§ Lord Gray of ContinMy Lords, if the noble Lord will just consider the happenings of the past week, he will see that it is not only the Government who have been disappointed in the inept leadership of the National Union of Mineworkers.
§ Lord Lloyd of KilgerranMy Lords, will the Minister say either today or later whether his figures include any sums for what are generally called enterprise schemes in the localities of coal mines so that if there is a reduction in employment other employment is available nearby?
§ Lord Gray of ContinMy Lords, I can confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Lloyd, that the figure which I gave in my original Answer includes an amount for that purpose as it relates to 1985–86.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, does the noble Lord agree with his right honourable friend's remark in relation to the coal conversion industry that what we and the Government are in support of at the moment is, in his words, today's coal for tommorrow's industry? In those circumstances, is the investment in the coal industry not very well spent and therefore should not be criticised by his noble friends?
§ Lord Gray of ContinMy Lords, the noble Lord is not being realistic if he does not imagine that capital investment in an industry which has had the problems suffered by the coal industry over the past 18 months would not be subject to close scrutiny and a degree of criticism. However, I say to the noble Lord that the level of Government grant and the extent of the investment programme in the industry are clear proof of the Government's commitment to the future of the coal industry.