HL Deb 21 October 1985 vol 467 cc820-2

2.41 p.m.

Lord Beaumont of Whitley

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it would not be to the advantage both of efficient help to exporting industries and of the proper provision of worthwhile aid to developing countries if the administration of the aid and trade provision were transferred from the Overseas Development Administration to the Department of Trade and Industry.

Baroness Young

My Lords, our view is that it is in the best interests of the United Kingdom and of the developing countries that we assist, for the ATP to be administered by the Overseas Development Administration as part of our aid programme.

Lord Beaumont of Whitley

My Lords, is it not true that there have been major delays over the past year or so in companies receiving answers to their requests for aid to accompany their bids, and that this has sometimes led to the loss of contracts? Is not really the only reason for keeping this provision with the aid budget a matter of concealing the pitiful smallness of our real aid budget?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I do not intend to comment other than on a specific point. However, I can confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont, that we use a greater proportion of our aid than our competitors for ATP-type financial packages, and that over the three years 1982 to 1984 we won over £ 1,000 million worth of contracts with the help of the ATP. Those include major contracts in India, Brazil, Indonesia, Egypt, Zimbabwe, Kenya and Peru.

Lord Beaumont of Whitley

My Lords, the noble Baroness has not answered the major question, which is: is it not true that sometimes it has taken months for companies to get answers to their requests for help, and should not a better way of dealing with these matters be found?

Baroness Young

My Lords, if the noble Lord has a specific case in mind, I shall be happy to look at it. But my understanding is that in the past three years the DTI has proposed almost 100 ATP cases. Only six cases out of those did not meet the appraisal criteria of the ODA. We believe that financing sound investments is not only a good use of aid but is also in our own commercial interests,

Lord Bottomley

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that over recent years overseas aid from Britain has decreased, whereas in the case of the western countries as a whole it has increased? In particular, cuts made in Africa, where aid is urgently needed, have been the greatest of all. Would it not be better, instead of transferring work from one overworked Government department to another, for the Government to consider recreating the Ministry of Overseas Development?

Baroness Young

My Lords, the Overseas Development Administration is there. It is of course now part of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, but it is within that a separate entity.

Lord Oram

My Lords, is there not a serious anomaly in having the aid and trade provision within the ODA! Has not the ODA declared that its policy is to help the poorest nations, whereas the list of countries which the noble Baroness read out in answer to the first supplementary question is a list of countries of the middle income bracket? While I can accept that there is a lot to be said for having an aid and trade provision, particularly because our competitors exercise that kind of procedure, should we not make it clear that the provision is there for the promotion of our exports and not primarily for the development needs of the developing countries? Would this not be made clear if the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont, was carried out and the administration was transferred to the Department of Trade and Industry?

Baroness Young

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Oram, has quite properly said, the ATP was established to help counter the often aggressive way in which some countries use aid funds to support their national firms in competition for large contracts in developing countries. The ATP is used to help British companies compete on an equal basis where other countries are using their aid money to support their particular projects, and where it can be shown that the contract will contribute to the development of the recipient country. In fact, a higher proportion of our aid goes to mixed credits in semi-concessional aid loans in our bilateral programme than in many other countries because we recognise among other things the importance of helping British companies in this way.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, will the noble Baroness answer the question which was put by my noble friend Lord Bottomley? Would it not be better if the Ministry of Overseas Development were recreated and given an overall supervision not only of aid but of overseas trade, so that it can work, as my noble friend has pointed out, both in the interests of the poorest of the world and also in the interests of developing trade with the under-developed countries and opening up their markets to firms in this country?

Baroness Young

No, my Lords. For the reasons that I have given, we do not believe that that would be the best line to pursue.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, but what reasons have the Government given? The noble Baroness did not give any reasons in answer to my noble friend Lord Bottomley.

Baroness Young

My Lords, we believe that it is in the best interests both of ourselves as a country and of the countries that we assist that the ATP should continue to be administered by the ODA. That is the subject of the Question. That is the answer to it.