National House Building Corporation (Hansard, 16 October 1985)

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I beg to leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, Her Majesty's Government have no plans to establish a national house building corporation.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I am bound to say that that Answer does not surprise me. It seems to me that this Government have no intention of doing anything about any serious problem. The fact of the matter is this. Would the Minister not agree—

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I am asking, "Would the Minister not agree?". What is wrong with that? It is courteous, it is nice—which is why Members opposite do not recognise it! Would the Minister not agree, in view of the fact that there is in the country the problem of a grave shortage of housing and there are skilled professional people and skilled tradesmen unemployed, that the Confederation of British Industry, the trade unions and our national Government, together with local government, should try to assess the problems properly and then set about trying to relieve the shortage of housing? Will the Minister not agree that in doing that they would also be relieving unemployment in the housing construction and general construction industries in particular?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, where I do agree with the noble Lord is that there is ample expertise available in the private sector in addition to the advisory services provided by the Building Research Establishment of the Department of the Environment. However, there has been no evidence of any demand or need for the kind of national body for which the noble Lord asks in the Question.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, surely it is the duty of any Government, is it not, to build and improve the housing stock of the nation? While it may be difficult for this Government, why do they persistently fail to harness the goodwill and resources of the building industry, the financial institutions and, more importantly, of those in local government who have the responsibility of solving the desperate housing shortage? For instance, why do the Government persist in believing that a policy of selling off council houses is an adequate substitute for a national house building programme?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, we are not discussing a national house building programme. As I understand it, we are discussing a national organisation of 567 expertise that can be called upon by the local authorities. In any event, I should not go anything like as far as the noble Lord, Lord Graham. I should like to point out to the House that last year some 87,000 local authority and new town dwellings were renovated, this being the highest total in the 12 years since 1973. Thus, the picture is not nearly as black as the noble Lord would like to paint it.

§ Lord Broxbourne
My Lords, will my noble friend the Minister re-affirm the Government's support for the good work done by the National House Building Council in prescribing and enforcing good standards of construction in the building industry?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, yes, I am very happy to do that. It has done an excellent job, and I have no doubt will continue to do exactly what it was set up to do.

§ Lord Moyne
My Lords, if the members of the Government were disposed (which I only wish they were) to introduce more finance into housng, would not the correct channel be the excellent Housing Corporation, which has done so much and is doing so much, rather than to set up a new body?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, that would certainly be one route to introduce finance into housing. Again, I agree that the Housing Corporation has done an excellent job since it was set up.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, despite what the noble Lord the Minister has said, does he not agree that the facts are that we have a desperate housing shortage in Great Britain? In addition to that, in another place Mr. John Patten has outlined the problems that he has with his derelict lands programme. I feel that the proposals I have made should at least be examined to see if they could fit into Mr. Patten's derelict lands programme. Houses, hospitals and so forth could be built and there could be liaison with local authorities. Doing all these things together would build homes and hospitals and reduce unemployment in the construction industry. What is wrong with that?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I am well aware of what my honourable friend the Minster for Housing has said, and we shall look at the suggestion of the noble Lord to see whether it fits in with the programme which he has outlined. But of course we must recognise that more and more people want to own their own houses and that therefore it is not necessarily the case that the local authorities should continue to build them.